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Discussion Starter #1
Is it me or is the Ferrari 308 starting to look classic? I saw a sketch of the F430 replacement with its pointy F1 nose and angular lines and it hit me. The 308, by comparison, is starting to look more like a sleek 246 Dino than the square 348/F355 and aerodynamic 360/F430.

Just five years ago the Dino was only about $55k, then $65k, then $85k, then it cracked $100k and has continued to go up.

Am I crazy to think the Ferrari 308 will start to now become a true sought after classic and not the dated 1980s borderline exotic it has been? The 308 has a lot of great design elements that are impressive. Compare it to its Lamborghini and Aston Martin contemporaries and the 308 has aged very well.

And those "high" 308 production numbers aren't so high any more, by today's production standards. We are still talking small numbers.

Could we see the Ferrari 308 creep up to $50k in the next couple years, on its way to $75k and then past $100k? I think it will happen, but when and how soon? Yikes...
 

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I agree it's time for this car to start rising in price...but please not so fast, I need to buy one first!
 

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And those "high" 308 production numbers aren't so high any more, by today's production standards. We are still talking small numbers.

Could we see the Ferrari 308 creep up to $50k in the next couple years, on its way to $75k and then past $100k? I think it will happen, but when and how soon? Yikes...
Yes, and no. It will vary greatly by variant. Early fiberglass 308 GTB's will lead the pack (followed by the other steel carb 308s) and continue to appreciate but 308i's probably will not move much for quite a while.
 

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I have seen several low mileage fibre glass 308's on the market for circa £40K in the last year. The problem with these are that they are show cars and will never be driven as the owner will be afraid to rack up the mileage.
I know this to my cost, my old 328 was very low mileage and in near concours condition, as a result, I didn't want to drive it, I just kept it in my garage and cleaned it more than I drove it. Next time around I won't be so precious about a car, I'll buy one that has been driven and won't be afraid to use it myself. If it's got a few scuffs and scratches on it, and doesn't sparkle all the time, so what? It's a car and was built to be driven, not to be cleaned.

Good condition carb 308's and QV's that have been driven can still be picked up for £25K over here. I can't really see them going anywhere yet as 328's can be picked up for £27K - £35K, and 355's are nearing the £30K mark.

Whilst production numbers are low compared to other marques, there is only a very limited market for Ferrari's as most people are put off by the exaggerated stories about maintenance costs. I think it will be another 20 years before 308/328's are fetching current Dino money. If you are looking for something to appreciate in value, a Testarossa might be a better bet?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Boxer, I think we agree that the 1980 - 1982 308s will be the slowest to move up in value. They were dogs in a couple ways. The QVs will do okay because guys like me like the fact they don't have the metric wheels, so you can put modern rubbers on them for added handling. They are also up on power, essentially on par with the carb'd cars so fun to drive again. The fiberglass is no doubt the gem for the 308s and they've consistently done well price-wise.

Oddly, Ferrari canceled the fiberglass car due to customer distaste for a fiberglass Ferrari that, at the time, was too much like a Corvette. It's funny how what was once perceived as a bad manufacturing decision later becomes added market desirability.

Still, the question stands. At what point does the 308 become distinct enough in the market that is begins to really increase in value? Is this in the next five years, ten years or beyond? I have a gut feeling the F430 replacement will stretch the design envelope and the 308 will really look like a car of yesteryear.

Archie, the Testrarossa is another car that is interesting. I think it may stay low for awhile. It hasn't aged especially well. The 512 TR on the other hand is a superior car and better looking too.
 

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Archie, the Testrarossa is another car that is interesting. I think it may stay low for awhile. It hasn't aged especially well. The 512 TR on the other hand is a superior car and better looking too.
I agree that Testarossa hasn't aged well, if I'm honest I have never really liked them, and much prefer the 512 TR. The Testarossa's do have quite a following now, and similar to the 348 fans they are very loyal. A couple of years ago, they could be picked up for £25K over here, but the dealers have got early one's advertised for £36k - £38K now. Although what they eventually sell them for is another story.

I don't really think that Ferrari's should be bought with pure investment in mind, first they should be bought for driver appeal and if you happen to make a few bucks on resale even better.

My next F-car will probably be a QV 308 GTS or another 328 GTS, because they are still my favorite Ferrari. I lost 15% of my original purchase price over a 2 year period when I sold my 328. I will buy my next car on the same assumption, anything better than that will be a bonus:)
 

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I'm with Dmitri - I want it to happen but give me a few moments to buy my car first.

I watched 246gt's move through the $100k (australia) barrier only about 2 years ago and I am very mindful of that in looking at a fibreglass 308 right now.

Up until yesterday the most expensive on sale here was $110k asking price for good cars with great maintenance history, not necessarily low miles. This is about $95k USD and 45k GBP.

Yesterday I found an early fibreglass 308 with original 4000km and full rebuild history, ex UK car asking $220k AUD. That is 100k GBP or about $190k USD.

Are they dreaming? Ahead of the pack? By far its the highest price 308 I've seen in about 6 months of looking.

Kon
 

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Boxer, I think we agree that the 1980 - 1982 308s will be the slowest to move up in value. They were dogs in a couple ways. The QVs will do okay because guys like me like the fact they don't have the metric wheels, so you can put modern rubbers on them for added handling. They are also up on power, essentially on par with the carb'd cars so fun to drive again. The fiberglass is no doubt the gem for the 308s and they've consistently done well price-wise.

Oddly, Ferrari canceled the fiberglass car due to customer distaste for a fiberglass Ferrari that, at the time, was too much like a Corvette. It's funny how what was once perceived as a bad manufacturing decision later becomes added market desirability.

Still, the question stands. At what point does the 308 become distinct enough in the market that is begins to really increase in value? Is this in the next five years, ten years or beyond? I have a gut feeling the F430 replacement will stretch the design envelope and the 308 will really look like a car of yesteryear.

Archie, the Testrarossa is another car that is interesting. I think it may stay low for awhile. It hasn't aged especially well. The 512 TR on the other hand is a superior car and better looking too.
IMHO the Glass 308s have already started a slow steady rise and will continue to appreciate over the long term. The rest of the 308 range has another 5-10 years to go before starting to move up in any significant manner. I goes back to the old rule of supply and demand. There are simply too many 308 i's and QV's around for demand to really start driving prices yet. Early glass 308s on the other hand are quite rare and in demand by both collectors and for vintage racers.

I do not see TRs moving for at least another decade. Design is polarizing, they are not easy to drive, and maintenance is very heavy on the wallet. In addition supply is plentiful while demand is not huge.
 

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I agree with the "another 5-10 years" sentiment. There is no way the price of such a beautiful icon of more than a decade will stay low forever.

People are also starting to do complete restorations on 308s, and otherwise not be afraid to sink money into them; the more that people do this, the higher the values of 308s as a whole will go.

But let me play devil's advocate today, and stand up and wave the 2-valve injected flag.

I won't argue that they will be among the last to go up in value, but they deserve more credibility than they have been given thus far. Consider the following points:

- All 308s are slow by modern sports car standards, and people are no longer buying them because they want a fast car; they are buying them because they want a classic, thoroughbred Ferrari. Whether some magazine that no one has a copy of any more said it reaches 60mph/100 kmh in 6.3 seconds or 7.3 seconds, or whether it does 146 or 156 mph, becomes less and less relevant with each passing day.

- The emerging generation of classic car enthusiasts don't "have it in" for fuel injection like the established generation does. Many younger people don't see carburetion vs. injection as a dividing line between classic and modern, and fewer will as injected cars of all makes get older and older. Not to mention, this is CIS we're talking about! (pretty simple) :rofl: And at least speaking for the United States, there are more specialists who can set up a Bosch CIS system to perfection than who can balance a set of four Webers (much less tune them). Carburetors are seen by many people as a hassle, and injection as low maintenance. Even in a city like Miami, specialists who can honestly and properly tune and balance four webers are few, expensive, and often have a long waiting list . . . while you can take your injected car to pretty much any Mercedes specialist (of which there are plenty).

- If maintenance costs are a put off (and that itself is debatable once cars reach a certain age and price), the 2-valve injected car is a logical choice -- no carburetors, and only half the valves to adjust!

- Before long (5-10 years?) many people looking to buy a 308 will be people who didn't pay acute attention them when they were new or newer, and the differences between various models will blur. Sure, many people will want a specific 308, and it will no doubt be the true connoisseurs, but others will be happy just to get one.

- The proliferation of attractive and affordable replica QV wheels is quickly putting an end to the metric/TRX issue. (And don't forget that some QVs had metric wheels, and some 2Vis had 14" wheels!)

- In the States, the late carbureted cars are just as "slow" as the 2Vi cars, and the injected cars were lauded for their drivability from day one. Last I checked, horsepower of catalyst carbureted 308s in the U.S. is rated as 205, just like the injected cars that followed. The general sentiment of the 2Vi at the time was, ~"well, horsepower has not improved, but drivability has, and that may prove to be more useful in real life." People like the fleabag dealers on eBay will always quote the 240hp number of the earlier non-catalyst cars when trying to sell their 1978-79 catalyst 308, and that confuses people regarding the horsepower ratings of federal 308s. But simple, quick research will tell anyone that the catalysts aren't the only thing cutting power; the late carbed cars also had milder camshaft profiles. The point is, the power advantage of carburetor over injected is 50% truth (1976-77) and 50% myth (1978-79) in one of the 308's MAJOR markets.

- Just as carbureted cars can be made faster, so can injected cars. There are books on tuning Bosch systems, and the CIS system is arguably as simple to modify as a carburetor (larger air flow meter, larger injectors . . .). As fuel injected cars of all makes fall more and more into the realm of tinkerers, classic car nuts and tuners, more "common knowledge" will emerge on getting more horsepower out of "old school" injection systems. The "vee-dub" culture has certainly worked wonders with CIS; how long before they get more money and start doing that to 308s? . . . The point is, once again, that the horsepower difference will become less and less relevant the older that 308s get.


When I went shopping for a 308, I could have bought pretty much any type of 308 that I wanted here in the States. For me, it had to be a "B". I like the looks better, and having driven both Bs and Ss, the Bs are definitely stronger in structure. And for me it also had to be an "i". I have spent enough hours of my life balancing carburetors, eliminating flat spots, dealing with fuel starvation in corners, checking for leaks and overhauling them; and I really like the nice, even idle of an injected car, and the fact that you can go somewhere in one wearing nice clothes and not arrive smelling like fuel (burned or unburned)!

Sure, I would have loved a QV, but a QV B is hard to find (especially in America, where the S to B ratio is even more lopsided). So I was happy to find a GTBi. If I wanted to buy an S, sure a QV would be preferable, but I would have taken a 2Vi over a 2V carbureted car, and if the right 2Vi came along in the right color and condition, I'd take that over a QV, and just say to myself, "when I want more power, I'll just do a few modifications." It doesn't take a whole lot for someone who knows what he is doing to make a 2Vi as fast (or close enough by seat of the pants) as a stock QV.


So, that's my rant for today. In a nutshell, the 2-valve injected cars deserve a little more respect. They are great drivers, easy to live with, cost less to maintain, and the power differences are both correctable and less relevant today and going forward than they were before. And your clothes won't stink! :)

Are the carbed cars faster? Absolutely! Are the QVs better? Absoluely! (GALVANIZED!!!!). Are the 2Vis undesirable? Absolutely NOT! And the difference between any two variants of 308s is not really significant enough (in my opinion) in the big picture to warrant strong favoritism of any one version over another, much less warnings to "stay away from" any particular model -- that leads to false perceptions like "I heard they were unreliable". The sooner that Ferrari enthusiasts stop poo-pooing the 2Vi cars, the better the market will be for ALL 308s.


I hereby declare June 10th an official international holiday: GTBi Day! :D

(By the way, today is my birthday, too. So I think I'll go and celebrate my birthday and GTBi Day by treating myself to a drive in my GTBi!) :)
 

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I hereby declare June 10th an official international holiday: GTBi Day! :D

(By the way, today is my birthday, too. So I think I'll go and celebrate my birthday and GTBi Day by treating myself to a drive in my GTBi!) :)
Tony, happy B-day and happy GTBi day!! All the best to you and your lovely F-car!

And once again, a very nice post. In the long term you're probably right, but only time will tell
 

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Happy Birthday Tony!

Chris
 

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Thanks! :)

I should also report that I had a wonderful GTBi Day, saw 7k rpm a few times and 6k several more! Hope you did, too! :cool:
 

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Happy Birthday Tony!

I agree with what you say, it will be interesting to see what happens 5-10 years from now.




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Tony, once again I thank you for your logic-backed rant. My hats off to you. It is great to know that you know exactly what you like and that you can support your choice with your seasoned wisdom. I wish I had even 1% of your knowledge. Thanks again. Jimmy
 

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Couldn't agree more about the i models (although I am admittedly biased).

Whether or not I will make some money on the GTSi is yet to be seen but in reality it will not be a really significant increase (nominally that is). When I bought the 308's ( and actually all the other Porsches I owned for that matter), one of the important aspects to me ist hat I had/have cars that don't depreciate - any appreciation is just a bonus.

I also really believe that looking for out and out performance when looking at a 308 is missing the point completely. If you want to go really fast, buy a Subaru and modify the living hell out of it. The 308 is about driving a car with a soul and passion and you get that whether you have a glassfibre GTB or an '81 GTSi. Therefore what I looked for above everything else is reliability. I had a couple of 911s with carbs as well as others with injection and as daily drivers, the injection is a no-brainer as they don't have to be fiddled with to be kept in tune (or at least worry that they will slip out of tune!).

All-in-all though, I must say that I have no problem with the improvement of sentiment towards and hence the driving of the prices up of the 308!
 

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Well put Schumacher, the 308 is for driving enjoyment first and foremost, whether carb, i or i qv. They offer driving purity in different flavours. The vetroresina I regard as a 308 superleggera/clubsport/scuderia weighing in at least 50kg less than steel bodied GTBs (GTSs weigh about another 50 kg over GTBs I think) in addition to its 4 carbs and dry sump. A fantastic driving car that is so different to anything else that I have owned. An intriguing car that I look forward to bonding with in Europe this Summer.

I disagree with those that say that the 308 is not a fast car by today's standards. Maybe hot-hatches will keep up in the 0-100 stakes but so what? A fast car to me is is not just about 0-100 but also about mid-range, top end and most important, track-ability. Track driving is where braking, handling, gearing, torque and power combine to count (or not). Did I mention handling? 10 years ago I went around Kyalami with a friend in his 308 vetroresina and it was very quick. I defy any modern, unmodified hot-hatch to last 5 laps with the 308. And mid-range, the 308 is very fast indeed-again I doubt any hot-hatch would keep up and I do not know of many that will run to 240 or more.

I think we sell 308s (and 246s) short when we say that they are not fast cars by today's standards. Driven well, my 246 could pin passengers into the seat under acceleration and scared more modern cars around Kyalami. And it was a 246 that won the 1975 Cannonball Run outright (the first Cannonball Run was won by Gurney in a Daytona in 1971 or was it 1972?)

So the 246 is not as slow as popular opinion would have us believe. And the 308 vetroresina weighing about the same as the 246 but with an extra 60 hp is plenty fast, whether for its time or now.
 

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To continue with my debunking the myth that the 308 is slow by today's standards, I cycled to the post office during lunch to collect my latest order from Amazon. In addition to Ferrari 308 Series Buyer's Guide & Owner's Guide by Steve Cook, I also picked up Ferrari 308 & Mondial Ultimate Portfolio 1974-1985 (I won't mention that I also picked up the 688pp bible on the Porsche 993 by Adrian Streather).

While I warmed up and dried off after being caught in the rain, I glanced at some road tests in the Ultimate Portfolio. In Feb 1977 Road & Track tested a US-Spec 308 GTB with performance figures that lend credence to the myth that the 308 is slow: 0-60mph in 9.4 seconds (!) and top speed of 132 mph. Whether the example tested was a dud or whether early attempts to federalise the carb cars were a disaster, the perception remains that in today's terms, most moden appliance-cars could match or even go faster than a 308 (although not on a track, but I am talking perception here of a slow car given tested figures of 0-60mph in 9.4 and top end of 132mph).

Taking this perception further, if a 308 with a claimed 240hp (US spec) can be so slow, how much slower must the Dino with a claimed 180hp (again US spec) be?

I am sure that the later federalised i could only have been better and faster than this.

Then I saw a test of a 308 GTB by Paul Frere, writing for Road & Track in early 1976, where he obtained a 0-60mph time of 6.4 and top end of 154mph. That's more like it and is a world of difference from the US-spec car as tested by R&T. I agree, who cares whether a car takes 6.4 or 7.1 seconds in the 0-60mph dash, but 3 seconds is the difference between very fast and slow-by-modern standards. British road tests of the time seem to have figures similar to Frere's. By these yardsticks the 308 remains a fast car and we should not have to justify ourselves along the lines of, "yes it is slow but it is fun to drive". A 308 is fun to drive first but it is also fast. And that's before we get to the twisties/race track where it is very fast and a veritable giant killer of old and new alike.

Right, I've dried off and warmed up from the cycle back to work and so I shall now stop bothering everybody and get back to work.
 
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