Should I buy a V12 Ferrari?

4708 Views 17 Replies 9 Participants Last post by ferrarievo, Aug 31, 2005

Daily412

Discussion Starter · Jun 1, 2005

Hi. I plan to purchase a 412i Aut because I think they're pretty and cheap. I've restored american V8 cars for years, so I know most things to be able to service any car. But can anyone help me understand why the 12 cyl is supposed to be so expensive to maintain? It's mentioned often when talking about the 412.
Is it because:
1. Parts are expensive/impossible to find?
2. The engine is weak, breaks often?
3. Simply the 12 cylinders are 50% more than 8?
4. Packaging, is it necessary to take the motor out for many repairs?
5. Requires a lot of special expensive tools?

Changing oil, plugs, cam-chain doesn't sound very complex, but maybe it is? What I fear most is the injection, I've had no experience of that.

Any advice is appreciated.

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jsa330

· #2 · Jun 3, 2005

I've owned a 1964 330 2+2 for going on three years, and can comment on your list from my experiences:

1. Expensive, almost always yes, and sometimes difficult to find, but usually not impossible.

2. No, if it was properly maintained in the past and the good maintenenance continues. Ferrari V12's were designed for long-distance, long duration racing and are very stoutly built.

3. Yes, the extra four cylinders are four more cylinders that require man-hours and parts.

4. On my 330, just about all repairs short of a complete block rebuild can be done without taking out the engine. The engine compartment is roomy and easy to get around in. Later front V12 models, such as the 412, are more crowded by the bigger 4-cam engine and a lot more power stuff as well as the injection system.

5. The 330 can be worked on with standard metric tools for routine stuff.
Once again, on a later and more complex car like the 412i that has fuel injection, you are probably looking at more special task-specific tools.

I can't comment on the injection. I leave the carb tuning on my car to the experts.

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Andrew

· #3 · Jun 3, 2005

Hi Daily, welcome to the site. Let us know if there are any ways we can help in your search for a 412. In regards to owning a V12 I believe spook did an excellent job. I'm sorry I cannot give more information regarding a injected system and working on it.

Daily412

Discussion Starter · #4 · Jun 3, 2005

Thanks everybody, you make me feel welcome..

An additional question, on parts availability. I understand that a new fender or rear window can be a major problem, but normal wear parts like oilfilters, plugs, brakerotors etc., and more long term things like piston rings and bearings, are all these things available? Where do you guys shop, any web shops with parts and OK prices?

williamtaylor

· #5 · Jun 3, 2005

We should have a Buyers Guide covering the 365/400/412 Series available in a few weeks. It will be posted in the Members Section.

jsa330

· #6 · Jun 3, 2005

Daily412 said:
Thanks everybody, you make me feel welcome..

An additional question, on parts availability. I understand that a new fender or rear window can be a major problem, but normal wear parts like oilfilters, plugs, brakerotors etc., and more long term things like piston rings and bearings, are all these things available? Where do you guys shop, any web shops with parts and OK prices?

Tom Yang's page is the best V12 site on the internet. You can find very specific answers to your questions there.

http://www.tomyang.net/cars/ferrari.html

In general, normal wear parts are readily available as well as longterm wear parts such as bearings. Items like oil filters and plugs are just standard parts. A headlight highbeam/lowbeam bulb on my 330 burned out and the local foriegn parts shop located them and I bought several at $5.00 apiece--it's the glass Marchal headlight lenses that are rare and big $$. When you get into stuff like ring and pinion sets the serious difficulty begins.

Keep in mind that there is a very large and active owner/prospective owner/enthusiast base for older Ferraris. As you will see on Tom Yang's page, quite a few businesses cater to the resulting demand for parts and services.

Three points, to be taken as scriptural truth:

1. Take your time and educate yourself well before you jump into Vintage Ferrari ownership.

2. Even if you do #1 thoroughly, and purchase a sound car, you will still end up spending more money, possibly much more, than you originally intended or budgeted.

3. Be sure of your motivation. For the average person, there is no sensible reason to buy a Ferrari, especially an old one that is not a highly collectible model. If you "have the passion", as they say, you won't care about or will be able to easily rationalize #2 because your Ferrari will become somewhat of a mistress to you. If you don't have this passion or emotional investment, the same car will seem to have become a money-gobbling monster that you will gladly sell at a loss just to be rid of.

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jungathart

· #7 · Jun 3, 2005

Hi,
What wonderful insight into vintage Ferrari ownership. I, too, am considering a 12 cylinder and try to weigh between a 365/400 vs a Boxer/Testarossa. I suspect it may be less hassle owning a TR in the long run.
Thanks for the info!

jungathart

· #8 · Jun 3, 2005

What about the automatic load levelers on the 400/412...can they be replaced with ordinary shocks? I have read that when these go out they will "instantly drain your bank account"! Yikes :-?

Stradale

· #9 · Jun 5, 2005

Personally, I think the older V12s are "cheap" because potential owners know parts are expensive and hard to get. I wish you luck if you're going that way.

Boxer

· #10 · Jun 6, 2005

spook64 said:
Tom Yang's page is the best V12 site on the internet. You can find very specific answers to your questions there.

http://www.tomyang.net/cars/ferrari.html

Three points, to be taken as scriptural truth:

1. Take your time and educate yourself well before you jump into Vintage Ferrari ownership.

2. Even if you do #1 thoroughly, and purchase a sound car, you will still end up spending more money, possibly much more, than you originally intended or budgeted.

3. Be sure of your motivation. For the average person, there is no sensible reason to buy a Ferrari, especially an old one that is not a highly collectible model. If you "have the passion", as they say, you won't care about or will be able to easily rationalize #2 because your Ferrari will become somewhat of a mistress to you. If you don't have this passion or emotional investment, the same car will seem to have become a money-gobbling monster that you will gladly sell at a loss just to be rid of.

spook64, Great advice. Only differ on one point, Tom Yang site is great but really only covers the Vintage V12, starting with the Daytona and 365 GTC/4 and moving back through the 250 series.

When I was considering jumping into Vintage ownership a few years ago, some of the best advice I received was, plan on spending a year to find the right car and buy someone elses restoration. You will be paying for the restoration work and getting the car for free

jsa330

· #11 · Jun 6, 2005

Boxer said:
spook64 said:

Tom Yang's page is the best V12 site on the internet....

Click to expand...

spook64, Great advice. Only differ on one point, Tom Yang site is great but really only covers the Vintage V12, starting with the Daytona and 365 GTC/4 and moving back through the 250 series.

When I was considering jumping into Vintage ownership a few years ago, some of the best advice I received was, plan on spending a year to find the right car and buy someone elses restoration. You will be paying for the restoration work and getting the car for free

Boxer--you're right, I should have been more specific about Tom's being a strictly Vintage 12 site.

Regarding buying someone else's restoration: A lot of restorations, especially of 2+2 cars, were done on the cheap in the late '80s to cash in on the Ferrari speculative bubble. I've heard of people who bought these "restored" cars recently still having to put a lot of money into them because mechanical issues were often shorted in favor of cosmetics, or the cosmetics were poorly done and are now showing their age badly.

Expect the worst, be happy when it's not that bad.

Boxer

· #12 · Jun 6, 2005

spook64, You are very right on the restorations done in the late 80's. Where I should have been clearer is that IMHO any restoration that is more than 8-10 years old really does not count as anything more than "very old extensive maintenance".

I think the definition of fiscal insanity is buying one of these cars without a PPI.

Daily412

Discussion Starter · #13 · Aug 8, 2005

Hi all, I just became a paying member! And got the Buyers Guide.

1. What's a PPI?

2. All, please tell me where you buy parts for a 412? On the web. I live in Denmark, but is used to buying parts for my 68 Camaro directly from the US.

3. I saw in a forum someone couldn't find tyres for this car, and had to buy new wheels and tyres, must be a joke right?

jungathart

· #14 · Aug 8, 2005

Hi,
1. PPI = pre-purchase inspection. Well worth the money!
2. try Tom Yang's website for possible links to parts sources.
also try Dennis McCann Ferrari parts, T.Rutlands, Norwoods.
3. www.tirerack.com should have any size except whitewalls for your '57 Mercury!
Best wishes.

jungathart

· #15 · Aug 9, 2005

By the way, I find the shape of the 400/412 to be very elegant and refined. I would be most tempted to choose a yellow one with manual transmission over my current plan to obtain a Testarossa!

Boxer

· #16 · Aug 9, 2005

Daily412 said:
Hi all, I just became a paying member! And got the Buyers Guide.

1. What's a PPI?

2. All, please tell me where you buy parts for a 412? On the web. I live in Denmark, but is used to buying parts for my 68 Camaro directly from the US.

3. I saw in a forum someone couldn't find tyres for this car, and had to buy new wheels and tyres, must be a joke right?

Daily, You should be able to source 412 parts through Ferrari UK. Here is the url:

https://parts.ferrari.co.uk/hidden-post.asp

you can also find tyres through a number of dealers in the UK. They are expensive but available.

Cheers,

Boxer

zwoemba

· #17 · Aug 9, 2005

Let's say: if you can pay it, you should do it. You'll love the sound too 8)

But it's really important to buy a good car. See above :wink:

ferrarievo

· #18 · Aug 31, 2005

looking for a 400i 12 cylinders? i've got one for sale

Hello,
i've got a 400i for sale, year 1983, 42000 km, mint conditions. all service done and documented. never had any accident. Good price: 35000 euros.
see pictures at www.ferrarievolution.com

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