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Terrible start to the New Year. I hope they get the ba****ds who did it.
 

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Condolences Eric and I echo John's sentiments. Fanatics of all persuasions are in my opinion relics. They have non place in our global and embracing world. RIP.

David.
 

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Eric et Henri, tres triste pour votre perte.

Espérons que tout le monde, y compris les musulmans se unir contre ce mal.

Condoléances et solidarité
 

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My Condolences as well. The Muslim community here In the US is strangely quiet, no public denouncement. Perhaps the civilized world will unite and put a halt to these senseless acts.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
France is under the shock of this barbaric and inhuman action.
Though, it is comforting to see that most of the countries over the planet show solidarity and the same rejection.
Those fanatics will never win this war. Never!
 

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Eric, Henri- Very sorry.
 

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Ridicule the retards for the clowns they are rather than fearing them or worrying about them. Osama Bin Laden was a complete failure. He killed a few thousand Americans on 911 but is personally responsible for the Taliban being kicked out of Afganistan and the death of hundreds of thousands of Muslims. The man was a complete joke, just another cult leader.
 

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The Muslim community here In the US is strangely quiet, no public denouncement.
This is something that really gets me angry. I've lived in Muslim countries in West Africa for several years and I've had a great time there, and I was made to feel welcome even though I am an atheist. I have nothing against the Muslim faith.

But there is something very wrong with the way that the large non-violent majority of Muslims in Europe, and apparently all around the globe, do not want to speak out against barbarism committed in the name of Allah or the prophet Mohammed, blessed be his name.

Actions like this cannot be condoned, cannot be tolerated, cannot go unpunished, no matter what religious belief you have. The murdering of opinion is against the Muslim faith. The Muslim communities must speak out in the strictest possible terms against these maniacs, and they must be the first to take a stand and make it hard for these people to operate. It is inconceivable to me that they are not doing that. For not speaking out is, to some degree, agreeing with the needless and baseless violence. If the Muslims close ranks based on faith, rather than humanism, they will separate themselves from the majority of Europe and this will not make their future any brighter.

Regardless of what will happen and what it will mean to be a Muslim in Europe in future, these people will not win. They will never win.

#jesuischarlie


Onno



Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!
 

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I concur with both Al and Onno. Muslim community leaders all over the world, and at the highest level, must speak out, condemn this outrage unequivocally and completely distance their religion from this group, its aims and its actions. If they do not, then they will leave the rest of the world with the impression that they do in some measure condone it, on the principle of "silentio consentire".

Every time there is a terrorist outrage, or an attempt to constrain freedom of speech, perpetrated by groups claiming alliance with the Muslim religion, all reasonable people quite rightly accept that these are extremists, not representative of the vast majority of peace-loving Muslims. This is more difficult when the attack on freedom of speech comes from a very senior Muslim cleric, but happily the Iranian religious hierarchy have been quiet for some years now after their inexcusable fatwah against Salman Rushdie, which gave credence to those who claimed that Islam is a religion of hate, not peace. If Muslim religious leaders do not go out of their way to denounce this outrage with a loud and united voice, then that suspicion will rear its ugly head again and that will do no good to anyone except the extremists.
 

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We are being told that two suspects in the Je Suis Charlie attack are surrounded and want to die as martyrs. I hope to God that they are apprehended alive. The public needs to see these guys in orange jump suits, walking into a courtroom in hand cuffs and leg shackles. Let this be the image we come to associate with their crimes, not a shoot out with the police where they become heroic icons to like minded extremists.

Scott
http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/france/40690-je-suis-charlie.html
 

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This is something that really gets me angry. I've lived in Muslim countries in West Africa for several years and I've had a great time there, and I was made to feel welcome even though I am an atheist. I have nothing against the Muslim faith.

But there is something very wrong with the way that the large non-violent majority of Muslims in Europe, and apparently all around the globe, do not want to speak out against barbarism committed in the name of Allah or the prophet Mohammed, blessed be his name.

Actions like this cannot be condoned, cannot be tolerated, cannot go unpunished, no matter what religious belief you have. The murdering of opinion is against the Muslim faith. The Muslim communities must speak out in the strictest possible terms against these maniacs, and they must be the first to take a stand and make it hard for these people to operate. It is inconceivable to me that they are not doing that.

Onno


Onno, of course you could not be more correct. And in fact I've seen several TV interviews with prominent Muslims who have condemned in the strongest terms this attack and similar violence by the fanatics. That said, it is not difficult to understand Muslim reluctance to condemn. It is based on fear, fear of the possibility of being assassinated by the same fanatics. Many many Germans internally opposed Hitler but the penalty for expressing any hint of dissent from the courses on which he set Das Dritte Reich was swift and severe.
 

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Spot on comparing current events to the good German citizens who allowed Hitler to go unchallenged because of their own fears.
 

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This is something that really gets me angry. I've lived in Muslim countries in West Africa for several years and I've had a great time there, and I was made to feel welcome even though I am an atheist. I have nothing against the Muslim faith.

But there is something very wrong with the way that the large non-violent majority of Muslims in Europe, and apparently all around the globe, do not want to speak out against barbarism committed in the name of Allah or the prophet Mohammed, blessed be his name.

Actions like this cannot be condoned, cannot be tolerated, cannot go unpunished, no matter what religious belief you have. The murdering of opinion is against the Muslim faith. The Muslim communities must speak out in the strictest possible terms against these maniacs, and they must be the first to take a stand and make it hard for these people to operate. It is inconceivable to me that they are not doing that. For not speaking out is, to some degree, agreeing with the needless and baseless violence. If the Muslims close ranks based on faith, rather than humanism, they will separate themselves from the majority of Europe and this will not make their future any brighter.

Regardless of what will happen and what it will mean to be a Muslim in Europe in future, these people will not win. They will never win.

#jesuischarlie


Onno
let's take this from a different angle:

- One assumes that this is about religion and therefore those in the 'faith' [I subscribe to none] must profess their innocence and/or apologize for the few idiots that 'profess to represent' such faith: It's almost like a gun owner apologizing for the fanatic whom shoots up a school yard.

If a Christian or Jew or whatever person, goes off the deep end, by turning fanatical, do all in the world whom do not subscribe need to support their faith by always [key word here] denouncing idiots?

When Waco TX or Jim Jones, some mega-churches in the US, or Mormons in their interpretations goes fanatical do those in the 'faith' need to support or deny?

Fanatics are just that and these fanatics/terrorists in France are just idiotic killers with some jerk concept of what reality they choose.

what a burden.

Religion has become some sort of bully pulpit which seems to be the splintering of many factions to a 'particular' religion in some person's interpretation: this latter is why I stay away from organized religions and why it should be segregated from public/political processes.

By the way: I am no fan of any fanatic stirring the fires which I see as a bent on causing a ruckus.
The magazine did that in their 'editorials' not so much on living persons which make sense to me, but on dead ones which is to those that subscribe a direct incite of causing problems.

Really, they 'just needed' to go there? It seems they KNEW it would be a problem, had guards and secured doors etc. to do their deeds under what purpose? their own agenda: they are as fanatical as the persons they knew would take a fanatical objection. The mag was making a political, religious statement and took that responsibility under their own mantle---but it went outside their bounds.


I DO support their right to do whatever they wish, as long as it does not endanger MY and my loved ones, but, sadly they just fed a fire.
 

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The two brothers are dead and so is the male perpetrator of the policewoman killing. Unfortunately the latter also took at least 4 hostages with him. His French female partner in the shooting is now being sought.
 

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let's take this from a different angle:

- One assumes that this is about religion and therefore those in the 'faith' [I subscribe to none] must profess their innocence and/or apologize for the few idiots that 'profess to represent' such faith: It's almost like a gun owner apologizing for the fanatic whom shoots up a school yard.

If a Christian or Jew or whatever person, goes off the deep end, by turning fanatical, do all in the world whom do not subscribe need to support their faith by always [key word here] denouncing idiots?

When Waco TX or Jim Jones, some mega-churches in the US, or Mormons in their interpretations goes fanatical do those in the 'faith' need to support or deny?

Fanatics are just that and these fanatics/terrorists in France are just idiotic killers with some jerk concept of what reality they choose.

what a burden.

Religion has become some sort of bully pulpit which seems to be the splintering of many factions to a 'particular' religion in some person's interpretation: this latter is why I stay away from organized religions and why it should be segregated from public/political processes.

By the way: I am no fan of any fanatic stirring the fires which I see as a bent on causing a ruckus.
The magazine did that in their 'editorials' not so much on living persons which make sense to me, but on dead ones which is to those that subscribe a direct incite of causing problems.

Really, they 'just needed' to go there? It seems they KNEW it would be a problem, had guards and secured doors etc. to do their deeds under what purpose? their own agenda: they are as fanatical as the persons they knew would take a fanatical objection. The mag was making a political, religious statement and took that responsibility under their own mantle---but it went outside their bounds.


I DO support their right to do whatever they wish, as long as it does not endanger MY and my loved ones, but, sadly they just fed a fire.
When an outrage like this is perpetrated in the name of a religion - any religion - then the leaders of that religion should condemn it. They have no need to apologise for it, because they did not perpetrate or approve of it, but they should condemn it and disassociate their religion from it.

CH had security because they had been attacked by terrorists before, but that previous attack should not have silenced them, or they would have been giving way to terrorism.

If what CH did was tantamount to inciting racial hatred, they should have been prosecuted under the law, or if it was defamatory to the point of being libellous, they should have been pursued through the civil courts, but they should not have been murdered in cold blood by self-appointed judge, jury and executioners. And if what they did was merely satire, which is by definition discourteous to those who are pompous, abusive of their power, self-righteous, or intolerant, then they should not have been forced to keep quiet by fear of acts of terrorism.

Sorry, my friend, but in this instance I disagree with your point of view (and please don't send a hit squad to punish me for it :crowngrin:).
 
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