If G.M. bought Ferrari would you still feel the same way about the Ferrari . Would you lose interest because of a loss of image and loss of the heritage? Would it still have the excitement that it now has and would the passion still exist?????
If G.M. bought Ferrari?????
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Interesting question. As long as the commitment to making excellent cars and winning is there, what has change? Enzo died a long time ago. Ferrari is now a for profit corporation. Its product has not changed. If and when it does, then my thinking about Ferrari may change.
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Magoo,
You pose a very tuff question. It scares me to even think of the possibility of such a thing. I would never lose my passion for the existing Ferraris but if GM decided to play too much of a role in the production then I think it would have an effect. Its hard to say what my reaction would be as its very broad. If GM took over and started using all their people to build the car and slap the Ferrari name on it then yes I think I would lose interest in any future production but would still stay loyal to the older models.
You pose a very tuff question. It scares me to even think of the possibility of such a thing. I would never lose my passion for the existing Ferraris but if GM decided to play too much of a role in the production then I think it would have an effect. Its hard to say what my reaction would be as its very broad. If GM took over and started using all their people to build the car and slap the Ferrari name on it then yes I think I would lose interest in any future production but would still stay loyal to the older models.
I share the same thougts as Andrew
If GM takes over, it depends on what they would they, if they would leave them alone, no problem, but if they would start the same thing like ford is doing to jaguar, then i would loose interest in those production cars, not the "real" Ferrari's
If GM takes over, it depends on what they would they, if they would leave them alone, no problem, but if they would start the same thing like ford is doing to jaguar, then i would loose interest in those production cars, not the "real" Ferrari's
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Dirk,
I think that pre-ford jags are junk(regardless of what you think of Ford). As far as Ferrari/Gm, this is still to be played out. Nobody knows for certain what FIAT will do with Ferrari. I'm not too crazy with the notion of Ferrari falling under the Gm umbrella. But this is a trend in today's business enviroment. Would we rather see Ferrari die out? Or would we rather see it continue on under a giant corporation? Wait a minute....FIAT is a giant company (but it's Italian). To conclude, Ferrari should remain in italian hands.......
I think that pre-ford jags are junk(regardless of what you think of Ford). As far as Ferrari/Gm, this is still to be played out. Nobody knows for certain what FIAT will do with Ferrari. I'm not too crazy with the notion of Ferrari falling under the Gm umbrella. But this is a trend in today's business enviroment. Would we rather see Ferrari die out? Or would we rather see it continue on under a giant corporation? Wait a minute....FIAT is a giant company (but it's Italian). To conclude, Ferrari should remain in italian hands.......
i like ford as ford, when i crashed my car in the beginning of the year i had a focus for a few days, and i liked the car a lot.
But what a really mean is that i don't like it that they are using ford parts in the jag, mainly about the interior.
Granted the Jag X drives good, but the interior isn't all that, too much ford like, they kinda lost a bit of the jag touch
But what a really mean is that i don't like it that they are using ford parts in the jag, mainly about the interior.
Granted the Jag X drives good, but the interior isn't all that, too much ford like, they kinda lost a bit of the jag touch
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I know where you're coming from dirk, but I guess it is all personal preference. I was never too crazy about the 'older' jag interiors. Basically, the XJS is pretty nice to look at. However, it is not the best driver.
DJ you are correct. I have been buying my wife new XJ series Jag sedans for sometime. The sedans have the greatest interior of any car and the bodies are great. Ford has made great improvements in the electronics of Jaguar but these other new small models suck in the interiors and style departments. However to compare the heritage of Jag to Ferrari is no way a comparison. Ferrari is ENZO, his life and the passion of the car. Take away the passion the Enzo image and mass produce the car and it is a great loss to the history of the Ferrari and to it's image. I think the car would lose all it's romance to the Ferrari purists and the car would lose sales therefore making it neccessary to make a whore out of the car to sell it. This is a very fragile positon for the Ferrari to be in. You know G.M. Ford and the big Auto maufs. don't have a problem of shooting a particular model down the drain if it doesn't sell. However the older Ferraris would more than likely skyrocket in their value because they are the real thing. JMO
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It will probably have an affect on Ferrari if GM takes over. Probably a negative one. But thinking about this, it wouldn't kill it altogether.
If you look back when GM owned an exotic car company (Lotus) it had positives and negatives: By no means is Lotus as popular as Ferrari, but they are still around to this day. GM never really messed with the flagship car (Esprit. Well, a few interior controls, but that's about it) and it survived. The Elan was a disaster though. Major parts sharing with Isuzu (DOHC four FWD) could not fool anyone with a "Lotus" badged valve-cover and enthusiasts were insulted. For a front-wheel drive car its was excellent, but the damage was done and it was quickly dropped. GM was probably thinking big because they had access to Lotus' engineers and they did use them for a few projects (Isuzu Impulse's suspension, one of the Corvettes engines, etc...), but in the end, they didn't get that far ahead technology-wise. In fact, neither of them are any ahead in the industry. But like I said earlier, neither have they died.
With Ferrari in their grasps, it'll be anyone's guess as to how it'll work out. I ain't thrilled about it, but why get bent out of shape? These are the big guys and they'll do what they want to do. Just enjoy the cars now and if something bad happens, savor the memories.
If you look back when GM owned an exotic car company (Lotus) it had positives and negatives: By no means is Lotus as popular as Ferrari, but they are still around to this day. GM never really messed with the flagship car (Esprit. Well, a few interior controls, but that's about it) and it survived. The Elan was a disaster though. Major parts sharing with Isuzu (DOHC four FWD) could not fool anyone with a "Lotus" badged valve-cover and enthusiasts were insulted. For a front-wheel drive car its was excellent, but the damage was done and it was quickly dropped. GM was probably thinking big because they had access to Lotus' engineers and they did use them for a few projects (Isuzu Impulse's suspension, one of the Corvettes engines, etc...), but in the end, they didn't get that far ahead technology-wise. In fact, neither of them are any ahead in the industry. But like I said earlier, neither have they died.
With Ferrari in their grasps, it'll be anyone's guess as to how it'll work out. I ain't thrilled about it, but why get bent out of shape? These are the big guys and they'll do what they want to do. Just enjoy the cars now and if something bad happens, savor the memories.
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Peter,
I like the way you look at it. But it still scares me. I'm just wondering about Ferraris financial status. Why can't they make it on their own? Is Ferrari a public company?
Also I would like to pose this question. How would everyone feel if it was BMW, VW, or DiamlerChrysler taking over and not an American auto company?
I like the way you look at it. But it still scares me. I'm just wondering about Ferraris financial status. Why can't they make it on their own? Is Ferrari a public company?
Also I would like to pose this question. How would everyone feel if it was BMW, VW, or DiamlerChrysler taking over and not an American auto company?
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DaimlerChrsyler is more German than American. Also, Ferrari will probably go public in the not to distant future. But. I don't know if it could survive on it's own if FIAT fell to GM. Besides, Gm would own the portion of FIAT that Ferrari is not part of.
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Dirk, why is the VW/Audi ownership a scary proposition? These companies (Bugatti, Lambo, etc...) have progressed forward in an unbelieveable rate and are in the best shape ever. They have resources avaliable at any time and can develop their cars like never before. To me, the Murcielago is the best Lambo to ever come out of Sant'Agata, period. In style, engineering and quality. Lambo has been on their death-bed since the '70's and have barely survived from corporations that mearly prostituted the company, just to have the name in their portfolio. This is the re-birth of the company and the future looks great for them. I think they would be smart enough not to mess with any of the aspects of Ferrari and just supply the needed cash when Ferrari asks for it.
As for your questions Andrew, they have one of the most expensive racing budgets of any team, in any motorsport. Fiat is their sugar-daddy, so no money, no racing. They could survive just building cars, but they wouldn't be able to support F1 (maybe they could get back into GT car racing full-time. I'd like that better, I could care less about F1). And for ownership, (no offense) I'd rather it be in a European company, than in an American one...
As for your questions Andrew, they have one of the most expensive racing budgets of any team, in any motorsport. Fiat is their sugar-daddy, so no money, no racing. They could survive just building cars, but they wouldn't be able to support F1 (maybe they could get back into GT car racing full-time. I'd like that better, I could care less about F1). And for ownership, (no offense) I'd rather it be in a European company, than in an American one...
Peter
you are right
in terms of the brands on their own they have never been better, but i'm looking at the racing part now, the group can't allow to race their cars (either when they have different names) against each other, it isn't good bussiness.
Like now Audi is pulling back from LM, so that the way is clear for Bentley.
For example at LM they would start with Bentley, Audi & Ferrari.
they are all very competitive against each other. But for sales it would be better that Ferrari or Bentley wins before audi, because what would their clienst say. I pay so much for my ferrari, but it can't beat an audi that is build by the same people.
And keep in mind that people (ones that arent so much in cars) will say this
you are right
in terms of the brands on their own they have never been better, but i'm looking at the racing part now, the group can't allow to race their cars (either when they have different names) against each other, it isn't good bussiness.
Like now Audi is pulling back from LM, so that the way is clear for Bentley.
For example at LM they would start with Bentley, Audi & Ferrari.
they are all very competitive against each other. But for sales it would be better that Ferrari or Bentley wins before audi, because what would their clienst say. I pay so much for my ferrari, but it can't beat an audi that is build by the same people.
And keep in mind that people (ones that arent so much in cars) will say this
I still think the purists will not be won over. After all they bitched until Ferrari finally changed the GTB from fiberglass to steel. Without the purists there will have to be a new clientel born to buy the car thus removing all the glamour and romance that we enjoy today. There will be a new direction for Ferrari which will make it a "not as special car as it is today." Those of us who aren't going to buy one of those cars don't have to worry about it but we still will live with the memories of yesteryear and not the future of the new Ferrari.
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I don't want Ferrari to ever loose its 'essense and mystique'. But I do think that some purist go overboard with some notions. There are many examples in Ferrarilore that can be used. Like the V12 vs. V8 nonsense :roll: . I would hate to see Ferrari go to GM or Audi/VW for that matter. But I am also torn to see something I truely enjoy and care about go to waste in the wrong hands. With that said, I could be labeled a purists. But at the same time, I do acknowlegde the need for a company to evolve and produce new high tech items.
Personally I think Ferrari is doing ok in the Tech end on their later model cars. As for the purists, they are the people who have influenced the style and passion to make the car what it is today and what it was yesterday. These are the things we love about the car. These things are what make the Ferrari unique and you don't see them sitting on every street corner like you do Corvettes.
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Magoo, you and I are of the same opinion, we both love the old cars and wouldn't want anything more than that. But then, we aren't the ones going out and buying 360's, 575's, etc... And this is what Ferrari needs in order to remain in business. Ferrari needs to continually evolve and change in order to sell more cars, so it means coming out with products like the current line-up.
I just hope the people buying the new cars now have as much of the true passion that we have of our classic ones.
Off somewhat from the current talk, but still in the same topic, I wonder if it would be better if Ferrari should (in the words of singer Neil Young) just "Burn out, than to fade away"? In other words, close the doors forever, rather than being sold-out to a heartless company producing soul-less cars? Certainly the mystique will be greater than ever and values would surely rise because there would not be any more made. An extreme and sad view of things but can it be possible? Would you be able to accept it? Remember, nothing lasts forever...
I just hope the people buying the new cars now have as much of the true passion that we have of our classic ones.
Off somewhat from the current talk, but still in the same topic, I wonder if it would be better if Ferrari should (in the words of singer Neil Young) just "Burn out, than to fade away"? In other words, close the doors forever, rather than being sold-out to a heartless company producing soul-less cars? Certainly the mystique will be greater than ever and values would surely rise because there would not be any more made. An extreme and sad view of things but can it be possible? Would you be able to accept it? Remember, nothing lasts forever...
As far as the ratio of buyers, Purists to new buyers aand how many new buyers are purists,who knows? I would say the reason anyone buys a Ferrari is because of its uniqness and its heritage, not because of it being a car that everyone else has like a Vette. Also to answer your other question, I would rather see Ferrari die out rather than make it a whore and take away everything that it has been over the years. Sort of like the old man who has a incureable disease. Remember him as he was and not let him hang on and die in pain.
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