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Discussion Starter #1
Probably more for the guys in the UK and Europe because petrol is so dear.

Just wondering if anyone has done the conversion. My train of thought is that since I've decided to sell the 308 and save for a 355, I could be swayed by a 348 and in the strive to run it on a more daily basis Gas convert it if it can be done.

What's the thoughts.
 

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In the late 70's my dad had a Morris Marina that ran on LPG, his company had decided to run the whole fleet on LPG as a cost saving measure.
My dad always complained that he had no boot space as there was a giant LPG tank filling the boot. He also complained that the cars performance was effected, mind you it was a 1.3 Marina, it was hardly a rocket before the conversion. At that point there weren't any filling stations offering LPG and my dad had to fill it up at his works on site fuel depot. It could also run on normal 4 star so he wouldn't be stranded if the LPG ran out.
All in all, my dad didn't like it and was very happy when he got his next car, a 1.6 Cortina and the company scrapped LPG conversions.
 

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I heard somewhere that the Finn's run a lot of their cars on alcohol as it freezes at a lower temperature than regular gasoline. I don't know if it takes a lot of converting or even how cheap it is, but I suppose a major benefit is that you won't have to fit a great big propane gas tank in what little storage space there is in a Ferrari.
 

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That doesn't sound right...gasoline doesn't completely freeze until -300 degrees Fahrenheit, but because it is a mix of different compounds, part of it will start to freeze at -100, but it can still burn just fine.....I don't think it's getting that cold in Finland.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
According to the people I know who fit LPG kits for a living it does not affect performance these days as it's all nice stuff now. They can make a tank that will fit in the spare wheel well, Tube of that crap tyre stuff required then. I know a couple of guys who are running 500s Mercs that think it's the best thing ever, specially when it's 69p a litre.
There's a place the supplies LPG about 10 mile from me so really the question is has anyone did the conversion. A Mondial 3.2 or 3.4 has the right boot for it and probably would be the best car to do it in as it has rear seats for storage:D But I want a 348/355
 

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Dmitri -

your thoughts are correct but your forgetting one point. Water does not mix with gasoline. Being heavier than Gasoline (~8.5 lbs/gall vs. ~7.7 lbs/gall) It collects in puddles at the lowest point where it can freeze into little (or big) chunks and causes blockage of tanks, lines, filters, injectors, whatever. The benefit of Alcohol is that it does mix with water. Because there is no "puddling" there is no freezing. When in solution you can think of the mixture as either lowering the energy rate of the alcohol or increasing the flash point of the water.

Damn - I guess those years sitting in front of the TV watching "Bill Nye the science guy" finally paid off. Or was it my cocktail mixologist experience?
 

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Dmitri -

your thoughts are correct but your forgetting one point. Water does not mix with gasoline. Being heavier than Gasoline (~8.5 lbs/gall vs. ~7.7 lbs/gall) It collects in puddles at the lowest point where it can freeze into little (or big) chunks and causes blockage of tanks, lines, filters, injectors, whatever. The benefit of Alcohol is that it does mix with water. Because there is no "puddling" there is no freezing. When in solution you can think of the mixture as either lowering the energy rate of the alcohol or increasing the flash point of the water.

Damn - I guess those years sitting in front of the TV watching "Bill Nye the science guy" finally paid off. Or was it my cocktail mixologist experience?
You are absolutely correct....that's what I get for being a Chemistry student, science only deals with absolutes and perfect situations! :eek:
 

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My mate in Holland is thinking of running a 400i on LPG. At least it should have a decent boot. But I also don't know of anyone that has done it.


Onno
I guess that'd be me....

Hi Onno, you here too???

The most important problem with LPG is that it burns hotter than petrol. As a result, it is hard on the valves, especially when you let the engine work for its money (as I usually do).

A 400 might be a better car in that respect - large boot for a large LPG tank and more GT than go-kart. Switch to petrol when hanging out with your F-car buddies, run on LPG on long stretches.

LPG comes in many different systems. They divide in three basic principles:

1: something that resembles a carburettor: vaporize liquid LPG, move the vapor to a venturi, where it gets mixed with air and enters the cylinders. This is the traditional setup. Problem with this is that it is rather crude and hard to set up properly. better suited for throttle body systems than trying to sync 12 throats.

2: LPG injection, in liquid form. Main player: Vialle LPi. Problem: the in-tank fuel pump fails very frequently and when it does, you need to buy a new tank. EXPENSIVE. Steer away from this one.

3: LPG injection, in gaseous form. This is your best bet.

Problem is that there will be no ready-made LPG kits for a Ferrari. The generic systems piggyback on the EFI of the host vehicle. Doesn't work with the old style fuel injection of the cars that you are considering (or the 400i). Probably need to get an aftermarket EFI computer (SDSEFI, Motec, Electromotive, etc), build an LPG fuel rail and get the LPG components needed.

Major job, but doable. Potentially lots of fun, just watch for gas leaks :D

I might still try this at some point in time, on the 400 that will be here at some point in time. For now, I just have fun burning LOTS of petrol in my 308GT4....

Hans
 

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