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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
With the aging F430, we highly recommend to replace the 20/30A PSR7 relay. It's heavy duty relay and one of the main ignition relays used by several other relays in cascade like the cooling ventilators but also directly linked to the TCU (+50). Once this relay contacts start to corrode (and it will after more than 10 years service), it will cause a voltage drop and as a consequence will put the TCU in an total unstable status making it behaving randomly.
Typically, when this happens, the TCU will not give anymore the signal to prime the F1 hydraulic pump while it should and cause the gearbox to stay locked in a gear by lack of hydraulic pressure. If this happens, the only way to get out of this situation is to cycle the main battery switch which will reboot the TCU, repressurize the F1 system and allow you to disengage the gear.

We see more and more F430s that had this issue which is very misleading as one may think that the problem is the F1 system.

For a couple of dollars, it's really worth to replace this relay to avoid big troubles. It can be easily found behind the LHS seat where the fuse/relay boxes are located.

Follow our recommendations here: Smart eMT F1 Relay ECU - Recommendations - SIS Techno - Scud Ing Swiss

Greg, that may be your random hydraulic pump issue too ;)

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi Ray, thanks for the search. Although, this is a very common micro-relay used by many different car manufacturers. You don't need specifically the original B047E/232006 referenced relay. Any universal 12V 20/30A SPST FORM C is fine. Hella for instance make them under the reference 933766111.

What counts is the layout of the terminals as shown on this picture:
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
PS: You can also use the same relay with 3 terminals (85-87a-86) and remove the middle one (87a) just as it was done on the OEM relay (see my picture above)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thank you Ray (y) Such tester can be indeed very useful.
It's certain that after more than 10 years service (on any car), many relays do not operate correctly anymore. But some relays like the PSR7 relay appear to be very critical and can cause big F1 issues.

I would recommend to replace also all the relays that are related to the cooling ventilators which are PSR5 20A (near PSR7), and in the front luggage compartment, AR1 and AR2 30A (ISO micro relays also) as well as the 2 separated standard ISO mini power relays N006.

Here's the rough logic of the relays cascade all playing an important role in the cooling system: PSR7 -> PSR5 -> AR1 and AR2 -> N006

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hi, the voltage peak happens when the relay closes actually, called flywheel or flyback, and happens towards the device that operates the relay. It is caused by the electromagnetic coil when power is released ;) . Relays usually have a build in resistor to limit this voltage peak, not a diode because a diode makes the relay polarity sensitive and if polarity is reversed, it will destroy instantly the coil.

I believe i have found an inexpensive relay sourced locally in the USA, but I need to know if someone (likely Stef?) knows if the relay has a built in diode, as is usually the case for relays to handle the inductive kickback when the relay opens. If i can get this answer, i believe i can provide the part number and source for an inexpensive solution. Anyone?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Sorry, I indeed inverted open vs closed, you're right, it happens of course when the power of the coil is released. On the F430, all relays have resistors. Ideal solution is a bidrectionnal TVS as a voltage clamp.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
The relay that meets all of the electrical requirements (30 Amp, 12V, resistor) and physical requirements is available from www.digikey.com. It is part number A11ASQ12VDC1.2R. The single piece price is $1.46, a "bit cheaper" than what was discussed above. And shipping is available by USPS which is only a few dollars more. I have ordered one for my F430 and I will let you know my results.
This CIT relay should do the job too, good find. There are many alternatives like Panasonic, Hella, Omron, Bitron, Bosch, Herth&Buss, TE, etc that will do the job.
Ray: only use relays with resistors, no diodes. Diodes make the relay coil polarity sensitive but most of all will create a switch release time delay (2 to 5 times longer to release) causing the contacts to spark. Not recommended when you have ECUs all around.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Hi Ray, PSR5, PSR7, AR1 and AR2 are identical ISO micro relays (SPST-A).
The N006 relays are standard mini relays exactly the same was your old F1 pump relay. You can see here the pin layout Type 1 which is identical: Smart eMT Relay ECU - F1 Pump Relay
I need to check but I believe it's a 50A relay for the fans.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
No, the Mouser Link will replace the N006 relays (2) used to power the fans as I posted before. It's a very standard relay. You can see the pin out on my website with the link I posted above.
PSR5, PSR7, AR1 and AR2 are identical ISO micro relays. You can purchase several of them from Digikey (CIT relays) or from any other source.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Here are some pictures of the ventilators heavy duty relays N006. As you can see, the terminals are corroded which isn't surprising when a relay has to power an electric motor. It's worth to replace them. They are rated 50A but I prefer to replace them with 70A relays with copper 30/87 terminals.

OEM Relays

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New 70A Relays

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Regarding PSR5 (as well as PSR4), these micro relays are actually a bit different to the others like PSR7 as they have the additional 87A terminal. They are brown 20A/10A relays but can be easily replaced by any equivalent SPDT Form C micro relay. As you can see, the 30 terminal was also badly corroded on both PSR5 and PSR4 relays.

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Regarding the LHS and RHS fuel pump relays as well as the Motronic ECU relays, they are Bosch relays but still identical to the classical SPST Form A micro relay (4 pin). Although, as these relays power critical components of the car, I would replace them with Bosch relays only. The OEM Bosch is part #0332017300 (20A) which has been superseded by #0332011007 (30A) easily available at low cost.

LHS:
PSR8: LHS fuel pump speed 1
PSR9: LHS fuel pump speed 2
PSR10: LHS Motronic ECU main relay

RHS:
PDR8: RHS fuel pump speed 1
PDR9: RHS fuel pump speed 2
PDR10: RHS Motronic ECU main relay

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
You did well Ray, it's worth doing it and will keep your F430 going reliably. Especially the PSR7 relay.

No, it's a 5-pin.

I pulled them all to replace them but none were corroded nor was there visible signs of arcing. And these are the original relays.
 

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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
FWIW, I just replaced the PSR7 relay as suggested and one thing became apparent, after starting, my alternator output voltage was higher then before the changeout. Previously it was 13.8 V cruising, and now it is a healthier 14.3V cruising. May be anecdotal, but if it helps to control voltages to the ECU's as indicated by the Bus voltage, it can't be a bad thing to replace as Stef mentions.
You did very well (y) . That's exactly what's happening, PSR7 creates a voltage drop enough to confuse the TCU as it doesn't have anymore a correct reference voltage between the different power inputs (3 of them) and as a result, makes it behave randomly like measuring not correctly anymore the values from the hydraulic pressure sensor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
Seems to me this thread went a bit off course. It was originally about replacing the plug in mini-relays, which is what I was discussing. Stef's products are in boxes which I'm sure are well engineered to address the issues I raised - I have the pump relay from him in my F430. But there is a dongle that plugs into the relay socket. Hence Stef's solution is NOT a plug replacement for a mini-relay as we have been discussing.
That's correct, thank you. Just to clarify to others, our eMT ECU (hydraulic pump relay) is far from being a simple on/off solid state relay but is a micro-processor based solution specifically designed to drive the pump motor and allows such motor to start instantly with maximum torque. That's why the pump cycles are shorter, usually 1.5 secs, expands the motor's lifetime and provides ideal hydraulic pressure to the hydraulic system.
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
These are the most critical F430 relays worth replacing after many years. As you can see, many of them have corroded contacts.

Circuit component Font Electronic component Rectangle Electronic device
 
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