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Discussion Starter #1
With the aging F430, we highly recommend to replace the 20/30A PSR7 relay. It's heavy duty relay and one of the main ignition relays used by several other relays in cascade like the cooling ventilators but also directly linked to the TCU (+50). Once this relay contacts start to corrode (and it will after more than 10 years service), it will cause a voltage drop and as a consequence will put the TCU in an total unstable status making it behaving randomly.
Typically, when this happens, the TCU will not give anymore the signal to prime the F1 hydraulic pump while it should and cause the gearbox to stay locked in a gear by lack of hydraulic pressure. If this happens, the only way to get out of this situation is to cycle the main battery switch which will reboot the TCU, repressurize the F1 system and allow you to disengage the gear.

We see more and more F430s that had this issue which is very misleading as one may think that the problem is the F1 system.

For a couple of dollars, it's really worth to replace this relay to avoid big troubles. It can be easily found behind the LHS seat where the fuse/relay boxes are located.

Follow our recommendations here: Smart eMT F1 Relay ECU - Recommendations - SIS Techno - Scud Ing Swiss

Greg, that may be your random hydraulic pump issue too ;)

244378
 

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With the aging F430, we highly recommend to replace the 20/30A PSR7 relay. It's heavy duty relay and one of the main ignition relays used by several other relays in cascade like the cooling ventilators but also directly linked to the TCU (+50). Once this relay contacts start to corrode (and it will after more than 10 years service), it will cause a voltage drop and as a consequence will put the TCU in an total unstable status making it behaving randomly.
Typically, when this happens, the TCU will not give anymore the signal to prime the F1 hydraulic pump while it should and cause the gearbox to stay locked in a gear by lack of hydraulic pressure. If this happens, the only way to get out of this situation is to cycle the main battery switch which will reboot the TCU, repressurize the F1 system and allow you to disengage the gear.

We see more and more F430s that had this issue which is very misleading as one may think that the problem is the F1 system.

For a couple of dollars, it's really worth to replace this relay to avoid big troubles. It can be easily found behind the LHS seat where the fuse/relay boxes are located.

Follow our recommendations here: Smart eMT F1 Relay ECU - Recommendations - SIS Techno - Scud Ing Swiss

Greg, that may be your random hydraulic pump issue too ;)

View attachment 244378
Stef,

Do you have a Ferrari part number for the PSR7 relay?

Ray
 

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On the relay it has two numbers: 46520411 and 232006. A quick Google search shows this part is the same on several different Italian makes. Alfa, Fiat, Lancia. The only sellers I could find are in the UK. While the part is about $8.00 USD the shipping will probably be $50 USD.

Ricambi no joy. Algar Ferrari no joy.
 

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On the relay it has two numbers: 46520411 and 232006. A quick Google search shows this part is the same on several different Italian makes. Alfa, Fiat, Lancia. The only sellers I could find are in the UK. While the part is about $8.00 USD the shipping will probably be $50 USD.

Ricambi no joy. Algar Ferrari no joy.
The part was $5, the shipping $28 from a UK company "SARASOTA CLASSIC HANDYMAN SERVICES LLC " via a web site khomgs.com. Rather disturbing that this part is not available from a Ferrari dealer.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hi Ray, thanks for the search. Although, this is a very common micro-relay used by many different car manufacturers. You don't need specifically the original B047E/232006 referenced relay. Any universal 12V 20/30A SPST FORM C is fine. Hella for instance make them under the reference 933766111.

What counts is the layout of the terminals as shown on this picture:
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244381
 

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Discussion Starter #6
PS: You can also use the same relay with 3 terminals (85-87a-86) and remove the middle one (87a) just as it was done on the OEM relay (see my picture above)
 

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Hi Ray, thanks for the search. Although, this is a very common micro-relay used by many different car manufacturers. You don't need specifically the original B047E/232006 referenced relay. Any universal 12V 20/30A SPST FORM C is fine. Hella for instance make them under the reference 933766111.

What counts is the layout of the terminals as shown on this picture:
View attachment 244379
View attachment 244380
View attachment 244381
Thank you, Stef!

Ordered it from Amazon. It will arrive tomorrow! Now I don't have to worry about the one from the UK ever arriving (I have my doubts).
 
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Thank you, Stef!

Ordered it from Amazon. It will arrive tomorrow! Now I don't have to worry about the one from the UK ever arriving (I have my doubts).
Just an FYI: Went to the Ferrari dealer this AM to buy the PSR7 relay. At first they claimed they never heard of the part numbers, but finally after calling Ferrari of North America, they found the part which had been misplaced. Cost? $70. Amazon charged $10.

I think I will sell the F430 and buy a 2021 C8 Z06. Should be an even up exchange money wise, but I get a new car with a 8-speed DCT and a warranty. I tried the Ferrari lifestyle and it's no fun.
 

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One of the frustrating things about these fly-by-wire cars like the 430 is that whenever you do anything to the car, even things that do not prima fascia affect the electrical system, you must disconnect the battery. The downside of that is the car "forgets", i.e. erases, all the information it has learned from prior driving sessions. This includes fuel mappings and a host of other data points. The car basically learns how you have driven the car recently and can respond more quickly to anticipated scenarios.

Obviously installing a replacement PSR7 relay is a case where disconnecting the battery is mandatory. It's astonishing to me that this perishable, but vital data is not stored in non-perishable RAM or an EPROM. This is a serious engineering shortcoming. I do not know whether this situation is carried over to successive models like the 458/488 but is is a clumsy way to handle things.
 

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One of the frustrating things about these fly-by-wire cars like the 430 is that whenever you do anything to the car, even things that do not prima fascia affect the electrical system, you must disconnect the battery. The downside of that is the car "forgets", i.e. erases, all the information it has learned from prior driving sessions. This includes fuel mappings and a host of other data points. The car basically learns how you have driven the car recently and can respond more quickly to anticipated scenarios.

Obviously installing a replacement PSR7 relay is a case where disconnecting the battery is mandatory. It's astonishing to me that this perishable, but vital data is not stored in non-perishable RAM or an EPROM. This is a serious engineering shortcoming. I do not know whether this situation is carried over to successive models like the 458/488 but is is a clumsy way to handle things.
I bought a relay tester on Amazon. It tests the relay off the car using a 12V power source (a car battery). It steps down the voltage and current for the relay initiator circuit so you don't inadvertently fry the 5V ininitator circuit. It displays a green light if the relay is working properly, a red light if the relay is bad, and a yellow light if the relay operates intermittently, i.e., it sticks or opens slow. I works with four and five blade relays.

Stef is right, these relay terminals corrode over time even inn the best atmospheric conditions. My 2007 430 probably has many old and susceptible relays.

Also bought a fuse checker which does not require pulling the fuse to check if it's blown.

Thanks again for the heads-up, Stef! That's why I love doing business with you. You do your homework!

Regards,
 
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Discussion Starter #11
Thank you Ray (y) Such tester can be indeed very useful.
It's certain that after more than 10 years service (on any car), many relays do not operate correctly anymore. But some relays like the PSR7 relay appear to be very critical and can cause big F1 issues.

I would recommend to replace also all the relays that are related to the cooling ventilators which are PSR5 20A (near PSR7), and in the front luggage compartment, AR1 and AR2 30A (ISO micro relays also) as well as the 2 separated standard ISO mini power relays N006.

Here's the rough logic of the relays cascade all playing an important role in the cooling system: PSR7 -> PSR5 -> AR1 and AR2 -> N006

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I believe i have found an inexpensive relay sourced locally in the USA, but I need to know if someone (likely Stef?) knows if the relay has a built in diode, as is usually the case for relays to handle the inductive kickback when the relay opens. If i can get this answer, i believe i can provide the part number and source for an inexpensive solution. Anyone?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Hi, the voltage peak happens when the relay closes actually, called flywheel or flyback, and happens towards the device that operates the relay. It is caused by the electromagnetic coil when power is released ;) . Relays usually have a build in resistor to limit this voltage peak, not a diode because a diode makes the relay polarity sensitive and if polarity is reversed, it will destroy instantly the coil.

I believe i have found an inexpensive relay sourced locally in the USA, but I need to know if someone (likely Stef?) knows if the relay has a built in diode, as is usually the case for relays to handle the inductive kickback when the relay opens. If i can get this answer, i believe i can provide the part number and source for an inexpensive solution. Anyone?
 

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Hi, the voltage peak happens when the relay closes actually, called flywheel or flyback, and happens towards the device that operates the relay. It is caused by the electromagnetic coil when power is released ;) . Relays usually have a build in resistor to limit this voltage peak, not a diode because a diode makes the relay polarity sensitive and if polarity is reversed, it will destroy instantly the coil.
Stef - you are correct about the kickback, but it happens when the relay opens - the stored energy in the relay coil ( an inductor) is released and opposes the change in voltage through it (dv/dt in engineering parlance). In any case, a diode clamp is the most common to clamp this, but the relay is available with a resistor, diode, or nothing. So your experience is that the F430 relays have a resistor? I want to make sure i choose the right solution and not cause any $$ damage to the car. Thanks much.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Sorry, I indeed inverted open vs closed, you're right, it happens of course when the power of the coil is released. On the F430, all relays have resistors. Ideal solution is a bidrectionnal TVS as a voltage clamp.
 

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Sorry, I indeed inverted open vs closed, you're right, it happens of course when the power of the coil is released. On the F430, all relays have resistors. Ideal solution is a bidrectionnal TVS as a voltage clamp.
The relay that meets all of the electrical requirements (30 Amp, 12V, resistor) and physical requirements is available from www.digikey.com. It is part number A11ASQ12VDC1.2R. The single piece price is $1.46, a "bit cheaper" than what was discussed above. And shipping is available by USPS which is only a few dollars more. I have ordered one for my F430 and I will let you know my results.
 

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Thank you Ray (y) Such tester can be indeed very useful.
It's certain that after more than 10 years service (on any car), many relays do not operate correctly anymore. But some relays like the PSR7 relay appear to be very critical and can cause big F1 issues.

I would recommend to replace also all the relays that are related to the cooling ventilators which are PSR5 20A (near PSR7), and in the front luggage compartment, AR1 and AR2 30A (ISO micro relays also) as well as the 2 separated standard ISO mini power relays N006.

Here's the rough logic of the relays cascade all playing an important role in the cooling system: PSR7 -> PSR5 -> AR1 and AR2 -> N006

View attachment 244386
View attachment 244387 View attachment 244388 View attachment 244389
I will be replacing all of these relays as I agree age is the enemy in this regard.

Finding aftermarket equivalents for all these relays is essential since the Somali Pirates charge exorbitant prices.

The information posted above by dschanin may prove to be quite valuable in sourcing these. I will check out that web site and try to find the equivalents for all the relays you mention.

Thanks again, and thanks to dschanin.
 

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The relay that meets all of the electrical requirements (30 Amp, 12V, resistor) and physical requirements is available from www.digikey.com. It is part number A11ASQ12VDC1.2R. The single piece price is $1.46, a "bit cheaper" than what was discussed above. And shipping is available by USPS which is only a few dollars more. I have ordered one for my F430 and I will let you know my results.
Any chance you can translate PSR5, AR1, AR2, and N006 into part numbers from www.digikey.com ?

If so, I'll buy them all.

TIA
 

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The relay that meets all of the electrical requirements (30 Amp, 12V, resistor) and physical requirements is available from www.digikey.com. It is part number A11ASQ12VDC1.2R. The single piece price is $1.46, a "bit cheaper" than what was discussed above. And shipping is available by USPS which is only a few dollars more. I have ordered one for my F430 and I will let you know my results.
If I am reading the part number code correctly, the diode version of that relay is "A11ASQ12VDC1.2D since the only difference in the two numbers is one ends in "R" for resistor, and "D" for diode.

If that's the case, wouldn't the diode version be better since it would eliminate reverse current flow?
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
The relay that meets all of the electrical requirements (30 Amp, 12V, resistor) and physical requirements is available from www.digikey.com. It is part number A11ASQ12VDC1.2R. The single piece price is $1.46, a "bit cheaper" than what was discussed above. And shipping is available by USPS which is only a few dollars more. I have ordered one for my F430 and I will let you know my results.
This CIT relay should do the job too, good find. There are many alternatives like Panasonic, Hella, Omron, Bitron, Bosch, Herth&Buss, TE, etc that will do the job.
Ray: only use relays with resistors, no diodes. Diodes make the relay coil polarity sensitive but most of all will create a switch release time delay (2 to 5 times longer to release) causing the contacts to spark. Not recommended when you have ECUs all around.
 
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