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Are you interested in replacing your F430 metal brakes with ceramic brakes?


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I am the proud owner of a F430 Spider F1. It came with great brakes, but I wanted to replace them with the Factory Carbon Ceramic Brakes. (now standard on all 2008 models) :cool:

1. Has anyone ever swapped out their standard brakes with ceramic brakes?

2. What is the expected costs?

3. Is anyone else interested in having this done to their F430 by a certified Ferrari Technician?

The my service center has never installed Ceramic Brakes so they are researching it for me.

I should have an answer tomorrow. What we know so far is:

1. There is a Ceramic Brake Kit in Italy from Ferrari.

2. It appears a lot has to be replaced:
a) brakes
b) rotors
c) calipers
d) brake lines
e) brake cylinders
f) some additional electronics for rear brakes

3. It will cost more than the $10K from the factory. How much? I dunno yet...

:confused:

Thanks in advanced...
 

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Why not?

Do you have ceramic brakes on one of your Ferrari's and you have not notice a difference?
 

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Do you have ceramic brakes on one of your Ferrari's and you have not notice a difference?
No I don't but I have driven a Challenge car fitted with ceramic brakes on a track hard. They are very impressive and you can brake later and harder going into a corner. The difference is probably a few 10th of a second a lap which can be quite significant if you are racing. However for normal road use, the steel brakes on an F430 are already highly impressive. The speeds at which you might notice a difference are well into the night in jail territory.
 

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I can't see how it would be worth it. I like mine, but would never go to the trouble to do it. It would have to be more than 10K, the option alone was more than that.

Put the dough into your next car.
 

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Personally speaking, I would not bother. However, I was curious if there is any advantage in terms of weight ? Also, didn't Porsche Turbos had problems w/ their CCBs when they introduced the options few years ago ? Jimmy
 

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Personally speaking, I would not bother. However, I was curious if there is any advantage in terms of weight ? Also, didn't Porsche Turbos had problems w/ their CCBs when they introduced the options few years ago ? Jimmy
There is a substantial weight savings and overall performance benefit to the CCB system however, to fit the factory system after production will exceed 20K.

Many 996 Porsche cars fitted with CCB did experience problems however, the system has been upgraded 4 times since then.
 

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CCM's

I am the proud owner of a F430 Spider F1. It came with great brakes, but I wanted to replace them with the Factory Carbon Ceramic Brakes. (now standard on all 2008 models) :cool:

1. Has anyone ever swapped out their standard brakes with ceramic brakes?

Yes, several times. First upgraded to CS/F430 ccm's, followed by an upgrade to 430 Scuderia/F430 Challenge/458 Italia spec larger discs.

The CS/F430 front discs are 380mm diameter
The Scuderia front discs are 398mm diameter. The rears are the shared and the same on both at 350mm diameter.

2. What is the expected costs?

Depends how you do it. If your savvy you can still get 'new' performance without buying everything new. Do Some proper research first as there any many ways to accomplish this upgrade including buy a combination of new and used parts.

Brembo Calipers
Buying used Brembo [yes they are made by Brembo, not Ferrari] calipers and just fully re-furbishing them to 'as new condition' can save substantially on costs so worth searching. Don't worry about colour, that can be changed too. Also don't worry it will some how be 'less efficient' than brand new. It won't. Essentially a brake caliper is nothing more than a big piece of aluminium metal that has machined by a computer on a CNC machine. Nothing really can go [normally] wrong with the caliper itself other than [very obvious] damage ore corrosion [I've never seen this ever once on these calipers].

Caliper Pistons & Seals
These are the main serviceable items in a caliper [excluding pads] are the replaceable. However both the pistons nor the rubber seals are sold directly from Ferrari [they want you to buy all new for more $$$].

If you factor in buying of brand new original Brembo seals, upgraded pistons and a re-paint and you can save yourself thousands just on the calipers alone. Literally thousands and they will look and perform as brand new ones do.

Upgraded Options - Better longevity & Reliability
Hills Engineering sell the pistons and seals required to do a full refurb and they actually do upgraded pistons which are fully stainless steel so don't suffer from the problems associated with factory pistons which are nickel coated and can get scratched and the begin to stick leading to poor breaking performance. Hills pistons don't suffer this problem!

Pagid CCM Pads
Next up are the pads. Again the factory stuff is not made by Ferrari, this time Pagid steps in (threads on this already). The stock pads are Pagid S600's and while OK on the road are pretty useless on the track. Its far better to run RS29's which also just happen to be a lot cheaper too and have dramatically improved track day performance as well as help with much longer disc lifespan. Win win.

Brembo CCM Discs
A lot of speculation is talked about regarding the discs themselves. Some quote ridiculous prices but the reality is, yes, they are expensive BUT they last significantly longer [if you use the right pads] plus they don't fade if you buy the right pads. Once you have bought a set of discs that work with your car calipers and hubs you can replace the outer disc ccm donut can retain your disc centre bells. If your savvy you'll discover that many cars actually share the exact same dimension discs so you can buy the discs much cheaper and just swap the bells over.

Master Cylinder
Optionally the (Bosch) master cylinder [which provides hydraulic braking assistance to your foot pedal] can be swapped. It doesn't actually need to be swapped, all this helps improve is the brake assistance over the stock cylinder. Really though this is not essential and some people actually prefer the LESS assistance of the stock steel brake cylinder over the CCM one since it helps you better with pedal modulation (but ofcourse requires a bit more pedal pressure).

Dashboard Clocks
A poor 'guessing' style software feature has been added to the Dashboard software. This attempts to estimate wear rates of the brake discs based on rather suspect data it try's to calculate when to replace the discs/pads. Its not exact, just like the Clutch wear estimator.

I'd personally give this a miss. Its not accurate anyway. Far better off to visually inspect the discs/pads for any major damage and them weigh the discs and check them against the numbers printed on the bell. Discs get lighter as they wear.

3. Is anyone else interested in having this done to their F430 by a certified Ferrari Technician?

The my service center has never installed Ceramic Brakes so they are researching it for me.

I should have an answer tomorrow. What we know so far is:

1. There is a Ceramic Brake Kit in Italy from Ferrari.

2. It appears a lot has to be replaced:
a) brakes
b) rotors
c) calipers
d) brake lines
e) brake cylinders
f) some additional electronics for rear brakes

a) CCM Calipers & CCM Pads, Caliper bolts [longer ones required than for steel discs]
b) CCM rotors and centre bells which match your car's hubs and calipers
c) Steel braided Brake lines, worth upgrading them to steel braided for improved pedal pressure and response.
d) Master cylinder [optional] Gold coloured.
e) Dashboard firmware upgrade for warning of wear [optional]
f) Brake fluid

g) ABS ECU sw.

If its all new kit is actually quite a simple bolt on upgrade. Definitely insist on getting a full geometry and ride height check done though to ensure handling is still perfect.
The CCM's save around 16k's over the stock stoppers and another 1k is saved if you replace the master cylinder too. You can save even more if you fit racing bells and center lock wheels/hubs [that's quite beyond the scope of this reply but I've written extensively about it before!]

3. It will cost more than the $10K from the factory. How much? I dunno yet...

:confused:

Thanks in advanced...
See inline comments

Even though I've written all of this I agree that for most people your actually better off putting this money into upgrading to a newer car. Seriously, if you plan to buy these bits new and let a main dealer fit it then you may as well just buy a 2 or 3 years newer car.
 

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And finally *IF* you bother to do this upgrade its pretty pointless with poor tyres [tires] since this will then ultimately limit traction available for improved stopping distances.

The tyres I recommend are MPSS [Michelin Pilot Super Sports] or Bridgestone Potenza RE-11's [USA - Not type approved in Europe] or if you really must the old now dated Pirelli Pzero Corsa's [you could alternatively check out the new Pirelli Trofeo's but unable to verify them yet as I've not tested them myself or have any data to backup claims].

With high performance tires and Scuderia big brake upgrade its possible to shorten stopping distances down to 93ft [28.3 meters!] from 60-0mph! That's around 8% better than stock F430 brakes [however the Scud does lower the weight too so you may need to do a bit of weight reduction to see this good a figure].

Great article is;
22 Cars that Stop from 60 MPH in Less Than 100 Feet - Motor Trend
 

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There are better ceramic brakes out there with none of the CCM rotor wear problems. Mov-It comes to mind and I have their CERs on my 575M. Rotors are solid carbon silicon carbide and just about wear-proof. The steel rotors in the first photo are 330 mm, same diameter as F430 steel rotors.
 

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I did exactly this upgrade from steel to OEM CCM. It was part of a Ferrari promotion and got the full upgrade +caliper paint for about 10.000$. What convinced me most is the improved friction ratio of 7:1. But if at that time I knew about Mov'it, I would have hesitated ;)
 

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Stef- If someone could do it for $10K, that would be a bargain. You got a great deal. It is starting to look like some of the Corvette components might work, too, and a rotor is $1200 vs $8K or so. Might be possible to assemble your own set.
 

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Stef- If someone could do it for $10K, that would be a bargain. You got a great deal. It is starting to look like some of the Corvette components might work, too, and a rotor is $1200 vs $8K or so. Might be possible to assemble your own set.
The Corvette ZR1 CCM is 394mm and removing the old center bell / hat and replacing it with your old one DOES IN FACT WORK fine.

Ofcourse you will loose pub bragging rights about having the largest ccm's which are 398mm but in the real world this fact is irrelevant. The 4mm loss of diameter [2mm per side] makes as good as no difference whatsoever. In fact the ZR1 pads sweep the exactly same pad area [they both share the same identical pad pagid part no.].

The main point is you must ensure you re-use your old bells to ensure compatibility. :thumbsup:
 

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Trev- My Mov'its are only 396 mm, but that does not bother me too much. They also make 420 mm CERs, which trumps most systems, but you need 20" wheels.
 

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Trev- My Mov'its are only 396 mm, but that does not bother me too much. They also make 420 mm CERs, which trumps most systems, but you need 20" wheels.
Wow, 42cm discs. Just insane, biggest I've heard of this side of a 458 Challenge car, mental!
 

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Here's a picture of what the complete kit (Ferrari CCM's) looks like in its entirety..
 

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Interesting picture Trev :thumbsup: I'm definitely missing the brake servo. What are the 2 black parts in the center of your picture? I can't recognize what they are.
 

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They sure do resemble the ebrake calipers in my setup.

I love the Scud's carbon brakes. No rust, no brakedust...it's just awesome!!!!
 

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I will have the CCM kit installed today! :thumbsup:

1 short question, does it run on the 'old' steel discs ABS ecu software?
After install I need to bring it from my installer to a Ferrari dealer 25miles down the road for programming, will this be possible?
 
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