F1 360 or Manual?

5512 Views 50 Replies 16 Participants Last post by Dj Dirk, Feb 25, 2004

Nero360

Discussion Starter · Feb 17, 2004

Hi all,

Just wanted to say what a great site this is. Full of interesting info and nice pics!

Anyway, my question to you all is that I am looking to buy a 2004 360 spider in a few weeks... and can't seem to make up my mind if it should be with the F1 paddle shifts or a manual? Can anyone give any insight as to which they feel is best... and why?

I have test driven both... but still can't seem to be able to make up my mind!!! Is the clutch likely to last longer in one as opposed to the other? This will be my first Ferrari, and the shape of the 360 has always appealed to me. So any general advice on the pros and cons of the 360 Spider would also be very useful.

Any advice would be greatly appreiciated!

21 - 40 of 51 Posts

Nero360

Discussion Starter · #21 · Feb 20, 2004

As I'm sure all will understand... I am a little bit excited about the soon to be new addition to the family.

It was a tough choice as up until recently I had earmarked a rather nice looking Diablo. But when compared with the particality of the 360... I knew then that it was Ferrari all the way

)

ddemet

· #22 · Feb 20, 2004

-F1 box: nearing 800km and still love that box! :lol: Very fast and fun in agressive driving and very comfortable in relaxed situations. Just needs a little care in hills and jams. I guess it is a question of taste but 80% of Modenas sold have this option, makes you wonder why.

As for the 'Ferrari-ness' of the F1 box: do you think Schumi's FormulaOne car is not 'Ferrari' enough? What about the Enzo and the Stradale that only come in F1?

-Diablo: you wouldn't get a plaque like this (check plaque.jpg) in the Lambo though :wink:

-TdF: check some fresh pictures! :lol:

-Badges: I like them a lot.

See less See more

3

4i2fly

· #23 · Feb 20, 2004

Hi Nero360 and welcome to the forum!

I am a 360Modena owner and I agree with almost everything being said here regarding the stick vs. paddles. I have owned my stick for three years now and I love it, but sometimes it is very hard to time the gear changes just precisely, especially when you are on the track or performance driving on the road. It does have its advantages and after driving both, I prefer to have the stick. Some of its advantages are driver involvement (but on the track you don't want the distraction of being too involved with gear changes and you want to concentrate on other thing) and the joy of double clutching and playing with throttle inputs. I also like it because you can control the smoothness of gear changes, and I am pretty sure it is easier on your clutch than paddles. The Paddle shifter is a neck jerking experience and sort of harsh especially if you are not on full throttle. It is also very hard on your clutch in long reverse, long 1st gear, uphill starts, and traffic. I was just getting a ride from a friend day before yesterday in his 360Modena F1, and as long as he was driving it in automatic the ride was super smooth. The automatic is actually very good and learns your driving style and tries to upshift or downshift based on your throttle inputs. It is really a marvelous system to drive just like a video game. But I think one of its major limitations is the throttle input to the F1 system. I didn't know this but was clearly explained to me by a product specialist from Ferrari of North America. The F1 system does not like modulating throttle inputs and if the driver continues to do so, the ECU stops all activity and will not move the car (kind of like I don’t know what you are asking me to do, when you make up your mind please let me know). Owning a Ferrari and fitting it with a Tubi is a delight to play with the throttle at low speeds and get that throaty but beautifully orchestrated music out of the V8 sitting right behind your neck. I read somewhere when they had asked Michael Schumacher what his preference was and his reply was the F1 paddle shifter, and he sited safety as his number one reason! Good luck with your decision. Either way you are getting a timeless machine that will give you joy no matter what the situation is.

Cheers,

See less See more

Dj Dirk

· #24 · Feb 20, 2004

ddmet

next time when your taking pics, can you take one then with the sun in your back, that way i can see your lovelly colour better :wink:
also is that the lake of Lausanne?

Dermot

· #25 · Feb 21, 2004

4i2fly said:
Hi Nero360 and welcome to the forum!

But I think one of its major limitations is the throttle input to the F1 system. I didn't know this but was clearly explained to me by a product specialist from Ferrari of North America. The F1 system does not like modulating throttle inputs and if the driver continues to do so, the ECU stops all activity and will not move the car (kind of like I don’t know what you are asking me to do, when you make up your mind please let me know).
Cheers,

Matt

You and I can compare F1 Vs. stick at Infineon next month matey!! I've never experienced any of the issues you mention with the exception of pulling away in first gear where the F1 tends to need firm input from the right foot sometimes resulting in too much acceleration (accompanied by a loud bark from the rear tires fighting for grip). The alternative, too little gas, can cause the car to hesitate for a moment when pulling away from lights etc.

I think the bottom line is just like learning to drive a stick shift you have to relearn how to drive an F1 gearbox. Its not like driving an automatic transmission so you have to spend time understanding how to extract the best performance.

For me, the F1 really enhances the Ferrari experience, especially taking into account that the Ferrari manual shifter is not the best on the market (Ohh I can feel the hate mail arriving already) Personal experience of my BMW E46 M3's stick shift has demonstrated that its much smoother and faster then the Ferrari box. I've owned 3 M3's, a F355b and F360 all with manual shifters before my F1 as a comparison.

Ok let me have it everyone!

Dermot

See less See more

Stradale

· #26 · Feb 21, 2004

Dermot is right. I owned a 360 ith the F1 box. It is not the best in the business. I've driven the M3 with SMG2, the Maserati 4200, and the 575 with F1. They're all better than the 360's.

Ferrari has made improvements on the F1 box, first with the Maserati Combicorsa and then even better with the 575. I had the chance to drive the 360 and the 575 (both with F1 box) back to back for 2 days in Fiorano and the difference is substantial. I asked the instructor about it and they said the system in the 575 is a bit different but can't be fitted to the 360. I hope the Stradale will have the improved F1 box.

In fairness Ferrai is the first to use the F1 box on a production car and they have been improving it since. But like all motorists, we want them to be perfect, but that will take time though.

See less See more

4i2fly

· #27 · Feb 21, 2004

I don't dispute the difficulty of manual gear changes, especially while high performance driving. I too after three years and almost 13K miles still miss a gear here and there. Also notable is everyone whom I spoke, with the F1 box likes the set up; but in some cases they had to take the car in for a bit of software adjustment to suit their personal driving style which is great. The manual is infinitely programmable to suit your preference in any situation. Here’s a story you may get a kick out of, my buddy and I were driving on Woodside road (west of I280) merging into I280 south, he was driving his F1 and I was driving the manual in my car. Imagine an orange and a red 360Modena flying through a mile of freeway. We were floored all the way through 6th gear (going through all gears, 2nd-6th) we hit over 155MPH and then slowed to exit at Sand Hill road. It was too much fun and showed how similar the cars are. I kept an eye on him in the rear view mirror and our distance practically never changed. Afterwards he said if there had been any hesitation on my part to shift gears or lift off throttle he would have run into me (I really don't recommend this exercise, specially on public roads). Differences aside, I am sure we all agree 360Modena is a great car no matter what options it is fitted from factory.

I found out that Sears Point Track event is only a couple of hours a day. I am verifying that but with all the stuff going on the track the limited time makes sense. But I am pretty sure we will see some awesome vintage Ferraris. There was a 250 GTO that was lapping a couple of race spec Ferraris last year. I also saw a 50’s Testorossa (I think 56 or 57) which came in 3rd in that year in Le Mans. It will be great weekend.

See less See more

thom360

· #28 · Feb 21, 2004

Dear Dermont:

Like you, I own an E46 M3, 6 speed. (Mine was one of those manufactured in late 2001 and had a catastrophic engine failure at 13,000 miles.) Anyway, I agree that the transmission is fabulous, but I don't agree that it's, "much smoother and faster then the Ferrari box."

I'm wondering, do you have a love/hate relationship with the M3? That's how I feel about it--the car annoyes me everytime I drive it. First and second gear are way too low; that stupid "sport" button drives me crazy; the steering wheel blocks the gauges; the door handles stick; it understeers badly; the software for the nav/stereo/telephone sucks; I've got rattles, a creaking strut, a squeaking wheel, etc. I actually have a list of problems--I haven't kept a list like this since I owned a Jaguar in the eighties! Otherwise, I love the car.

By contrast, the Ferrari is as close to perfect that I've ever experienced. I had an NSX prior and was surprised that the 360 was so good.

Thom ...
6 speeder in New York

See less See more

4i2fly

· #29 · Feb 21, 2004

thom360 said:
Dear Dermont:

I'm wondering, do you have a love/hate relationship with the M3? That's how I feel about it--the car annoyes me everytime I drive it. First and second gear are way too low; that stupid "sport" button drives me crazy; the steering wheel blocks the gauges; the door handles stick; it understeers badly; the software for the nav/stereo/telephone sucks; I've got rattles, a creaking strut, a squeaking wheel, etc. I actually have a list of problems--I haven't kept a list like this since I owned a Jaguar in the eighties! Otherwise, I love the car.

Thom ...
6 speeder in New York

Hey Thom,

Sounds like my 2000 Landrover Discovery... what you would expect from an English car (they are just fussy)... but a German with these many flaws. They must have hurried this one through the assmbly line to meet the hot demand at the time. I owned 5 generations of BMWs and never had this much problems with them, I am glad I went for the 996 and not the M3.

Cheers,

thom360

· #30 · Feb 21, 2004

I chose the M3 over a 996, oh well. I'm hoping to replace it with a C2 997, if I can wait that long.

Regards,
Thom
New York

Rosso

· #31 · Feb 21, 2004

4i2fly said:
I don't dispute the difficulty of manual gear changes, especially while high performance driving. I too after three years and almost 13K miles still miss a gear here and there. Also notable is everyone whom I spoke, with the F1 box likes the set up; but in some cases they had to take the car in for a bit of software adjustment to suit their personal driving style which is great. The manual is infinitely programmable to suit your preference in any situation. Here’s a story you may get a kick out of, my buddy and I were driving on Woodside road (west of I280) merging into I280 south, he was driving his F1 and I was driving the manual in my car. Imagine an orange and a red 360Modena flying through a mile of freeway. We were floored all the way through 6th gear (going through all gears, 2nd-6th) we hit over 155MPH and then slowed to exit at Sand Hill road. It was too much fun and showed how similar the cars are. I kept an eye on him in the rear view mirror and our distance practically never changed. Afterwards he said if there had been any hesitation on my part to shift gears or lift off throttle he would have run into me (I really don't recommend this exercise, specially on public roads). Differences aside, I am sure we all agree 360Modena is a great car no matter what options it is fitted from factory.

I found out that Sears Point Track event is only a couple of hours a day. I am verifying that but with all the stuff going on the track the limited time makes sense. But I am pretty sure we will see some awesome vintage Ferraris. There was a 250 GTO that was lapping a couple of race spec Ferraris last year. I also saw a 50’s Testorossa (I think 56 or 57) which came in 3rd in that year in Le Mans. It will be great weekend.

Wow, that sounds great! Must have been an amazingly fun short run! I can picure where it is on I280 now...wow.

Well, indeed sounds like it's going to be a good event. I've pretty much convinced dad that we're going for both days, so it's looking pretty good and hopefully everything will align.

ddemet

· #32 · Feb 22, 2004

Dj Dirk said:
ddmet

next time when your taking pics, can you take one then with the sun in your back, that way i can see your lovelly colour better :wink:
also is that the lake of Lausanne?

It is Lake Geneva on which Lausanne is also located (in French it is called Lac Leman so as not exclude the non-Genevans).

I live on the Northern (Swiss) side of the lake and at this time of the year the sun tends to be interfere with photos of the lake unless taken in early morning/late afternoon but I'll try take your suggestion into account next time.

In the mean time here is a less spectacular photo (doesn't show the lake and the cliffs) which shows off the colour better though!

See less See more

Dj Dirk

· #33 · Feb 22, 2004

yes, that shows the colour better

i really love that colour, but no challenge grill?

the area around the lake is really beautifull. i drove beside it in december when i was going the Gstaad for the auction

Dermot

· #34 · Feb 23, 2004

thom360 said:
Dear Dermont:

Like you, I own an E46 M3, 6 speed. (Mine was one of those manufactured in late 2001 and had a catastrophic engine failure at 13,000 miles.) Anyway, I agree that the transmission is fabulous, but I don't agree that it's, "much smoother and faster then the Ferrari box."

I'm wondering, do you have a love/hate relationship with the M3? That's how I feel about it--the car annoyes me everytime I drive it. First and second gear are way too low; that stupid "sport" button drives me crazy; the steering wheel blocks the gauges; the door handles stick; it understeers badly; the software for the nav/stereo/telephone sucks; I've got rattles, a creaking strut, a squeaking wheel, etc. I actually have a list of problems--I haven't kept a list like this since I owned a Jaguar in the eighties! Otherwise, I love the car.

By contrast, the Ferrari is as close to perfect that I've ever experienced. I had an NSX prior and was surprised that the 360 was so good.

Thom ...
6 speeder in New York

Thom

Well I'm a big M3 fan. Looks like you have had a bad car, mine is very very good with 3 exceptions (1) It does like to drink oil, about a quart every couple thousand miles, BMW said that that was "standard" for the E46 M3 (Yeah right) (2) The navigation system software really sucks like you said.. I like the display quality and I like the maps but the software is hopeless. (3) I agree, they should remove the sport button and make the default driving mode "sport", all it does (I think) is increase the response of the throttle, not like the 360 where the suspension and engine settings change.

Apart from that the car rocks.. The gear changing is flawless.. and it looks really cool, no squeaks no engine blow ups (I'm at 25k and no problems so far "touch wood")

We will have to agree to differ on the Ferrari gearbox discussion.. The BMW SMG gear box is superior to the F1 (I owned an SMG M3 for a short while) but it lacks a "soul" like the Ferrari, so I'd forgive the Ferrari gear change almost anything because its such an amazing experience in comparison to the very efficent M3 (Unfortunatly, on the track, the BMW shifter is nearly 3x faster then the 360's according to Ferrari, which makes the M3 GR3's lap times faster)

Dermot

See less See more

ddemet

· #35 · Feb 23, 2004

Dj Dirk said:
yes, that shows the colour better
i really love that colour, but no challenge grill?

the area around the lake is really beautifull. i drove beside it in december when i was going the Gstaad for the auction

Hope to have some more pics when weather clears up (with the sun in the back!).
I've always loved dark blue cars! Had a dark blue 996 before and a dark blue 840ci before that.

Decided against the challenge grille in the back but went for it for the front so as to match the side air intakes.

The area around the lake is indeed stuning. It is the biggest lake in Europe (by water volume, not surface). The cliffs on the northern shore make for some great vistas and I am lucky enough to live only a 5 min drive away from those winding roads by the hillside vineyards!

Which route did you take to Gstaad? Through Bulle, Col des Mosses or Col du Pillion? The fastest and most interesting is Col du Pillion but if weather conditions are bad it can be a little challenging. Can't wait for the summer months to drive around the Alps!

BTW were you at the Ring on June 20th last year?

See less See more

Dj Dirk

· #36 · Feb 23, 2004

not really sure what route i took, i printed out directions from the michelin site :evil: and ended up in Lausanne, according to michelin i arrived at my destination :evil:
so luckelly a friend had brought along a small map, and followed the road besides the lake to head up the mountain to gstaad
on the way back i drove to the other way, that was a LOT faster and closer to the freeway :evil:
and i got caught speeding, 3 flashes in the dark is pretty scary, but still haven't received it, thank god

you mean if i was at the Ring during the Modena Motorsport Days? from Uwe Meisner?
yes i was there, for both days

Dermot

· #37 · Feb 23, 2004

4i2fly said:
thom360 said:

Dear Dermont:

I'm wondering, do you have a love/hate relationship with the M3? That's how I feel about it--the car annoyes me everytime I drive it. First and second gear are way too low; that stupid "sport" button drives me crazy; the steering wheel blocks the gauges; the door handles stick; it understeers badly; the software for the nav/stereo/telephone sucks; I've got rattles, a creaking strut, a squeaking wheel, etc. I actually have a list of problems--I haven't kept a list like this since I owned a Jaguar in the eighties! Otherwise, I love the car.

Thom ...
6 speeder in New York

Click to expand...

Hey Thom,

Sounds like my 2000 Landrover Discovery... what you would expect from an English car (they are just fussy)... but a German with these many flaws. They must have hurried this one through the assmbly line to meet the hot demand at the time. I owned 5 generations of BMWs and never had this much problems with them, I am glad I went for the 996 and not the M3.

Cheers,

ooooh as an Englishman that hurts.. The English car industry is a "wonder to behold" (ie: It does not really exist anymore)

Regards

Dermot

4i2fly

· #38 · Feb 23, 2004

Dermot said:
4i2fly said:

thom360 said:

Hey Thom,

Sounds like my 2000 Landrover Discovery... what you would expect from an English car (they are just fussy)... but a German with these many flaws. They must have hurried this one through the assmbly line to meet the hot demand at the time. I owned 5 generations of BMWs and never had this much problems with them, I am glad I went for the 996 and not the M3.

Cheers,

Click to expand...

ooooh as an Englishman that hurts.. The English car industry is a "wonder to behold" (ie: It does not really exist anymore)

Regards

Dermot

Click to expand...

Dermot,

I hope you’re joking…no offense intended to the English/British car industry, on the other hand, they make great cars but their quality control is a bit on the shady side. I guess Jaguar has actually improved since Ford bought them a few years ago! My Land Rover was a lemon! I finally got rid of it and my wife chose to buy a Suburban (go figure). A reliable source told me BMW dropped the Rover acquisition a couple years back due to out of control warranty returns.

Cheers,

YannPeier

· #39 · Feb 24, 2004

Great car may be you will go for Maserati SUV when and if it is ever produce.

See you soon on the roads... :work:

ddemet

· #40 · Feb 24, 2004

Dj Dirk said:
not really sure what route i took, i printed out directions from the michelin site :evil: and ended up in Lausanne, according to michelin i arrived at my destination :evil:
so luckelly a friend had brought along a small map, and followed the road besides the lake to head up the mountain to gstaad
on the way back i drove to the other way, that was a LOT faster and closer to the freeway :evil:
and i got caught speeding, 3 flashes in the dark is pretty scary, but still haven't received it, thank god

you mean if i was at the Ring during the Modena Motorsport Days? from Uwe Meisner?
yes i was there, for both days

That is strange, Michelin usually gives good directions! :-?
Both ways are quite scenic anyway. 8) Some more lake views with the 360.

Good luck with the radar.

As for the ring, I ment the accident with the 360.

See less See more

2

21 - 40 of 51 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.