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Hi Lev

Stef got it spot on!

If you knew that a certain part of your car is prominent to fail, would you leave it and go for a cosmetic change rather that rectifying the possible future failure?
And as a bonus you will both get enhanced sound and added low torque as well as power raise throughout the rev range.
You can confirm this your self by studying the dyno graphs and sound clips posted on youtube.

I suspect that the seller, has some boxes in stock that he wants to get rid of rather than ordering you a new set of headers and is trying to convince you to buy his existing stock rather than having it sitting there!

Personally I would listen to the advice of some people who have put this in practice rather that the sweet talk of a salesman.
 

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Hi Guys,

I really did not intend to play ping pong with opinions but please note the detailed response from Chris at Scuderia. If I understand the main objective behind this whole thread then it relates to putting the brackets in and after that we can breathe a sigh of relief. Anyway, I think this response is interesting so I thought I would share it......

Hi Lev,

Ok, they are sort of right, but it gets very complicated – this will be a long email so apologies for all the reading!

The original 430 exhaust currently on your car has two ‘paths’ for exhaust gasses to flow. At low revs when the valves are closed the gases flow through the muffler, and are consequently fairly subdued. At high rpm, the valves open and the exhaust gases bypass the silencer completely – this means the gases are exiting the car straight after the cats.

There are 3 Capristo exhausts available – non-valve, valved, and twinsound.

The non-valved exhaust has only one path for the gases to flow at high rpm and low rpm. This means that at low rpm compared to stock, the exhaust will be louder. However the exhaust gases will pass through this same chamber at high rpm too. This means that in actual fact, the stock exhaust will be louder than the Capristo – because at high rpm the stock exhaust gases exit directly after the cats, whereas on the Capristo they are passing through an additional chamber before exiting. So one would think that that stock system is better? This assumption is incorrect, as what makes the Capristo special is the wonderful tone that it gives the exhaust. It’s a phenomenal F1 screaming sound, which is the Capristo signature, and this is what gave them their name! This can be specified in sound 1,2 or 3, which equates to how loud the system will be. We always recommend 3, as you need 3 at high rpm, although it is loud at low rpm!

The valved system has this same chamber at low rpm, but at high rpm it still has the direct exit path – so the benefit of this, as described by the forum member below, would be realised primarily in the low rpm range, as at the high rpm range they should sound the same (they won’t sound exactly the same, because even in direct exit, some gases will still go through the silencer and change the tone)

However, the third system is the twinsound – this system has TWO chambers built into one ‘box’. At high rpm, you will have the exact same sound as the level 3 non-valve, BUT at low rpm you can have either a sound 2 or sound 1 chamber too. So, you get the benefit of the wonderful Capristo tone at high rpm, without it being invasively loud at low rpm. Therefore, what your friend on the forum said is only applicable to the second system described – for which he is perfectly accurate!

Now, the complication lies in volume – the Capristo system sounds twice as good as the stock system, but of course because it now has an additional chamber over stock, it is slightly quieter. This will be alleviate by two things – firstly, you won’t notice. It will sound loud to you anyway! And secondly, when you do the headers further down the line, they will further improve tone, and increase volume. Additionally, you can add Capristo catalysts to the equation too, but that’s another story (and additional expense which you don’t need!).

Your friend is correct, the manifolds will increase torque at low rpm – but he also suggested you would be driving around with the valves open all the time. This as I’m sure he’s aware (he seems to have good knowledge!) will reduce torque due to the extreme drop in backpressure – and it will be reduced a lot more than is gained from the manifolds! However this brings about a side argument – there is absolutely no way that anyone driving these cars, unless they’re Schumacher, will be able to FEEL any discernible difference no matter what they do. I’ve driven them with EVERY combination (just manifolds, just silencer, both, non-valved, valved, twinsound etc.) and all these small increases/drops in bhp/torque are unnoticeable unless you’re an extremely skilled driver! As I said in the beginning, these mods are for sound purposes, and the side effects are exactly that. What happens on a dyno graph, and what you FEEL are totally different.

The only point that is 100% correct is the other person’s comment - that this way round, you are choosing a cosmetic change over a known problem. But bear in mind, the cosmetic change will prolong the life of the headers, sound great in the meantime, and spread the cost of what you are planning to do anyway!

Overall, you’ll love anything Capristo produce for the car. If you do opt for headers, you will love what they do to your car. Same with the exhaust.

If it was my car, and I had unlimited money, I’d do the following:

Level 2/3 Capristo twinsound exhaust with Capristo exhaust bracket
200 cell Capristo sports catalysts
Capristo manifold kit

If I didn’t have unlimited money, I’d do the exhaust, then the headers, and then the cats if I wanted more volume/power.

Ultimately, what is it you’re looking to do? If you’re looking to improve the sound of your car, then do the exhaust. If you want to rectify the manifold problem, then buy the headers.

I hope that info helps!

Kind regards

Chris
 

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Long write up, but you only need to look at the epilogue.

For me personally the most important bit are the 3 last lines in his write up.
There is nothing else I could emphasise.
Ultimately it is your decision.
 

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I have just orderer the Capristo bracket kit to fit to my F430 OEM exhaust. Are there any specific tips regarding this fitment. Do you have to drop out the exhaust box or can you fit the bracket without disturbing the box? From the parts schematic it looks like the exhaust tips have have studs and an gasket. Do you need to drill out the studs ? will it require new gaskets ?

I have read a lot about the tension on the springs, is there are guideline torque value to achieve the correct compression on the springs ?
 

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Discussion Starter #105
Hi D ;)

In the first pages of this thread, I marked all the stock parts to be removed in red. You will have to remove also the silencer/muffler to install the new brackets. As I recommended also, it is advised to support the cats while you removing everything to avoid too much stress on the exhaust manifolds. I don't have any torque values but the different pictures should give a good basis. While you're there, check also the 3 bolds linking the cats to the headers. They tend to get loose after some time.
Please re-read carefuly the first pages of this thread to make sure that you're missing some important info ;)
 

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Over the weekend, I installed the Capristo brackets on my 430 with Tubi muffler and exhaust pipes. For what it’s worth, the system has no valves.

To facilitate the process and avoid having to support the exhaust with jack stands, I removed the muffler, bowed bracket and associated hardware first and left the brackets bolting the exhaust pipes to the differential in place to support the exhaust while I installed the Capristo brackets. (I have to give credit to that idea to a poster on a different forum).

I had to compress the springs significantly to get the support arms to fit under the flange. Initially, I thought perhaps the muffler joint may sit lower on the Tubi compared to the stock exhaust, but it seemed to have used the stock exhaust brackets and supports, so I am not sure about this.

I got everything in OK, though it took some struggling to align the holes at the flange and get the support arms under it. I adjusted the spring tension to get the exhaust tips to sit centered in the bumper openings and took her for a 30 minute drive. I did not see any movement in the bracket slots. The next morning, I loosened the spring tension so the exhaust tips sit a little high in the opening and went for another 30 minute drive. Again, no movement in the slots was seen. There is also a rattle at idle, so I will have to take the diffuser off again to check the bolts connecting the cats to the exhaust pipes and manifold.

I don’t know if I need to take it on a longer drive to generate more heat in order for the exhaust to expand, or whether the muffler joint really did sit lower than stock, in which case, I thought about clipping part of the spring to reduce the overall height.

Any comments?

uploadfromtaptalk1377005227344.jpg
uploadfromtaptalk1377005244037.jpg
 

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some of us seem to be getting significant vibrations in the 3/3.5K range when coming off the gas, it seems this is probably as our springs are not tight enough ??
 

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& Hallelujah after many months now we have the answer, in that several of us have simply installed them or had them installed incorrectly. many of us have mounted like me the large washer after the bracket (pic1), instead of between the cross member and the bracket (pic2). All my rattles & vibrations have now completely gone, this has been seriously troubling me for months. Makes sense as this the contact point between the chassis and bracket is much smaller AND the brackets critically better aligned.

The only problem is that if you need to change this, like me, you need to take the bracket springs off (supporting the tailpipes with a jack) but as the Capristo nuts deform you will likely need to cut the bolts and replace them
 

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My brackets were installed by a dealer, but the washers are located as shown in picture #1. I understand relocating the large washer so that it's between the bracket and the frame. Did you add a washer to go between the nut and the bracket? You mentioned cutting the bolts out. Are the bolts that go through the frame to the bracket not movable such that you can't pull them out once you remove the nut on them?
 

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I added the thin washer between the bracket and the Crossmember nut. DON'T CUT THE LARGE CROSSMEMBER BOLTS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, the bolts will you will probably need to cut is the THINNER BOLTS which go through the BRACKET SUPPORT SPRINGS as you can loosen the nuts a little but its highly unlikely you will be able to fully unscrew them
 

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So to process for each side is; ( you need to remove the rear diffuser first )


1) Support the weight of the side tailpipe (by the exhaust Sound valve) with a car jack
2) Remove the large 17mm nuts from the crossmember stay
3) Remove the smaller nuts (13mm) & bolts through the exhaust bracket spring
4) Remove the 2 springs
5) Pull out the Capristo Exhaust bracket
6) Put the large washers/spacers between the Crossmember and the Capristo Exhaust bracket
7) Retighten the 17 MM nuts for the Capristo Exhaust Bracket to the Cross Memeber
8) Add back the 2 springs and smaller nuts and bolts though the springs
9) Remove the jack
10) Tighten everything up
11) Repeat on the other side
 

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tx. it's truly a revelation in terms of immediate loss of all vibrations and better alignment, my 430 Spider had become so bad I was getting very frustrated with no solution until today
 

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Discussion Starter #115
Interesting info Richard, thanks for completing this thread. I too have the large washers mounted between the brackets and nuts but didn't notice any vibrations or rattles. I will try to figure out with a vibration meter if there is any difference. But I'm glad this fixed your problem, well done :)
 

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Interesting info Richard, thanks for completing this thread. I too have the large washers mounted between the brackets and nuts but didn't notice any vibrations or rattles. I will try to figure out with a vibration meter if there is any difference. But I'm glad this fixed your problem, well done :)
tx. Stefvan, many of us have these problems & this is the magic wand, please check with Capristo for confirmation. I'm sure you'll find that the part design is outstanding but the installation instructions are simply not comprehensive enough.
 

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I have my Capristo mounts installed like Richard's photo1 for several years with no vibrations. Is it worthwhile to redo mine to move the large washer between the crossmember and bracket?

Hey StefVan, are you going to redo yours?
 

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Discussion Starter #118
Hi Ron,
I will not redo mine as I have no issues with vibrations from the Capristo exhaust support system. I was actually more wondering if the root cause would not be worn engine mounts which will transmit more engine vibrations to the chassis through the Capristo brackets.
 

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Stefvan, should my motor mounts be shot I should be able to feel this no, I have circa 18km. All my vibrations have now gone, however my Spider's exhaust is very loud (even allowing for the Capristo Headers) but there is nothing blowing at any of the joints from what I can determine.
 
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