[wazie7262]

Hi everyone,

I could use a little help. I am going to look at a 1985 308 QV this Saturday. The issue is that I found this car on the internet at what seems to be a very reputable dealer. I have done a Carfax on the little beauty and things seem clean. HOWEVER, having done my research, which includes reading all the various and wonderful threads here, there are some red flags, I think. First of all, the car seems to originally be from GA and now resides in AZ. Per the Carfax report, it shows normal perhaps daily driver miles while in GA but, upon its arrival in AZ, which seems to have been around 2000, the car seems to have only had around 600-1K miles put on it. The car currently has 62K miles on it and, per my questioning and per the dealership, it is in need of its major service. My concern is that even with the major on the engine, all that sitting (if this is, indeed, the case) has no doubt caused many other problems. The reason I was intrigued by this car is that the sale price on it is approx 25K. Then again, this is also what scares me, particularly seeing how its coming from a high-line dealership. I.e. WHY is it priced so low? This dealership's mantra is "high end cars wholesale prices" or something to that effect. I have seen pictures of the car, including the engine bay, and it looks very nice and well cared for, for a 62K mile car. But, of course, I know this means nothing. I am flying out to AZ from CA this Saturday and my reason for writing you all is basically for some good ol' advice. I have asked about service records and they say they have the book but that it's somehow become stuck togther. The car was supposedly purchased by this dealership from Ferrari of Scottsdale. I apologize for the lengthy missive but, again, any help you can gice would be much appreciated. Thank you, Scott

 

[Ferrari328GT]

308qv

Perhaps I could be of assistance. I live in the Phoenix area, and have rebuilt most of my 328GTS. First of all, what is the name of the place with the car? I know some of them, good and bad. I'm not surprised that Scottsdale Ferrari got rid of it - they have only real late model, gorgeous cars.

Second, the price is not really that far off. The car needs a major service, and it has a real questionable past. And 62,000 miles is a fair amount for a Ferrari. A lot of them have half that. I think this car might be a great deal if you can take it apart and put it back together yourself, but it might be a money pit if you have to pay someone.

That said, if the car is located in the Scottsdale area, I could give it a quick look for you on Friday and tell you whether it's even worth flying out for. Also, I have a lift at home, so if you get real serious, we could check it out in detail. I'm afraid that I am busy on Saturday and Monday, but otherwise I can help out. If you do end up buying the car, I would trailer it home. Too many questions to drive it across the desert. Not worth the risk.

Why not email me at [email protected] and we can work out the details. Or call at 480 816-5932. I am out tonight at a Pantera club meeting. -Steve

 

[wazie7262]

Thanks Steve

Thank you so much Steve. I have sent a more specific reply to your personal email. But I just want to say here that your willingness to help, and the wonderfully helpful disposition of so many here makes me happy and proud to be part of this little passionate community.

My best to all,

Scott

 

[Pete04222]

Well something is fishy with this car. QV's go for around 35-40k. I can't remember the last one I saw for less than 30k. If you've seen the pictures and it looks good then it is worth taking a look at. It could just be that it is on consignment and the owner is anxious to move it.

I agree with Steve if you buy the car I would trailer it home or arrange delivery. This car needs to be gone through before taking any long trips.

 

[Boxer]

Per Steve and Pete's comments. Definitely need some answers on this 308QV. It may however still be a good buy. I would take the following approach:

- assume if in excellent condition and low mileage it has a value of $35k
- take the $10k difference between the above and this cars price and hold it as the cars investment fund
- get a full detailed Pre Purchase Inspection done
- add up the cost of addressing all the items in the PPI (including a major service and cambelt change), deduct this from the $10k fund
- deduct another $3-4k if the car does not have the original tools, books, and at least recent history (not having these things will hurt resale value)

which should give you an idea if it is really a good financial deal.

Some people prefer to buy perfect cars that need nothing and others prefer to buy cars in need of some investment. On the former, you sometimes unpleasant surprises may pop up, on the latter, you at least know exactly what you have but it does require more time and effort.

On a personal note, I would not be that concerned on the mileage (check to see that the speedo has not been disconnected and the reattached). A 308 engine should be good for at least 100k miles. Why a Ferrari with 40k miles is considered a high mileage car, were as a Porsche with 75k is considered normal is something I just don't understand. Both are built to be driven.

Good luck.

 

[wazie7262]

Buying 308QV?

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for their comments, insight and help. I am very fortunate that Steve is helping me greatly on this by swinging by to take a look at the car today. I will let you all know how it goes. Again, many thanks.

My best,

Scott

 

[Ferrari328GT]

Beware of 308QV #52923

Oh, jeez, where do I start. How about a bad engine. It barely runs, pops back and stalls constantly and blows blue smoke out the left tailpipe. Every gasket, seal, and hose leaks. There are no service records at all. The clutch is so bad that you can let up on the clutch pedal completely and the car does not move. You have to feather the throttle, if you can keep it running, and eventually it will move. And third and fourth synchros grind badly once you get going fast enough to use them. The hood is bent in two places. The radiator leaks. Neither window goes down, and the A/C does not work. Every piece of plastic on the interior is loose including the instrment cluster. The wheels have road rash and the tires are dry rotted. The spare is flat and is missing the hold down bolt. The body itself is actually pretty good, because the car is from Georgia. But there is a half empty can of Duplicolor red spray paint in the trunk (eeegh). The front bumper has a large split in it. OK, I guess you get the point. And this is from a used car lot that says they only deal in vehicles in "pristine condition" (their words!). How do these people sleep at night? -Steve

 

[wazie7262]

Thanks again to Steve

Well...it's hard to explain how valuable it's been to have someone like Steve in my corner. Steve, you spared me plane fare, time, energy and eventual disappointment. I know it may be almost ad nauseum at this point for you, but THANK YOU! My search will go on, but now my eyes are even more open. Thanks to everyone for their imput, as well.

Kindest Regards,

Scott

 

[Pete04222]

Now we know why it is a $25k QV. Steve, that was awesome of you to go and look at this car for Scott. Definately saved him some disappointment, and it was the "not going to buy it" third person that can look at the car without the passion of a potential buyer overlooking issues like a leaking radiator and stuff.

Having said that, if you really want a QV and are willing to "fix 'er up", maybe a sub-20 offer would be worth considering. The engine needs to come out and requires a complete overhaul and new clutch and tranny gone through. You said it barely runs, but it does run. The rest of the stuff seems like normal 20 year old car issues. The power window issue doesn't suprise me, those are easy enough to fix with a weekend of work. You said the body is pretty good, that is the important part. Other than being loose, how was the interior? Decent, no tears?

Sounds to me like if you could pick the car up for 20k, dump another 10k into it and spend about a year doing it, you would have a car that is worth what you've got into it. This, of course, is doing it yourself.

Steve, would your school be willing to help Scott out on a project like this? They've already done one Ferrari with successful results.

Thanks again for going to look at this car for Scott. I'm proud to know 'ya.

 

[Ferrari328GT]

Hiya, Pete. Actually, looking at this POS was the most fun I've had since Valentine's Day. If I were in the market, I'd pay no more than $10K. This is a rotisserie car. It is just plain worn out. The seats were recovered previously, but the sides are already worn through. The carpet is original, dirty and has shrunk. The package shelf has been recovered in non-stock material, although that's not a big deal. The console was re-dyed, but the dye is peeling off. The rubber moldings around the door and targa top are shot. Do you know what parts cost for a Ferrari transmission? I didn't even get to look at the suspension or brakes because the place had no facilities (I'm not sure they even have a bathroom). The only reason I'd ever do this car was if it turned out to be one of Tom Selleck's . There are just too many other decent cars for sale. Remember that Scott can't do the work himself, so he has to pay through the nose for everything.

My students NEVER touched my Ferrari. Remember that a lot of them were convicted felons! Besides, I retired last spring, so that I can be a bum and look at old 308s. -Steve

 

[Pete04222]

Ah, now I hear the rest. Yeah. This car would be worth more if it were completely disassembled and sold for parts. Gotcha.

Scott, I think Steve saved you a whole world of hurt. Keep up the hunt. If you are looking for a sub-$30k Ferrari then you need to look at 1982 or earlier GTB, GTBi, GTS, GTSi or the GT4. Any other model if it is less than $30k than you probably don't want it.

 

[Boxer]

Ah, now I hear the rest. Yeah. This car would be worth more if it were completely disassembled and sold for parts. Gotcha.

Scott, I think Steve saved you a whole world of hurt. Keep up the hunt. If you are looking for a sub-$30k Ferrari then you need to look at 1982 or earlier GTB, GTBi, GTS, GTSi or the GT4. Any other model if it is less than $30k than you probably don't want it.

Pete, I disagree. I don't think this car has many parts which are worth much. The big ticket items appear to be all shot.

 

[Pete04222]

Pete, I disagree. I don't think this car has many parts which are worth much. The big ticket items appear to be all shot.

Body panels, the nose, the doors, the glass. That's over 10k right there, easy.

 

[Magnum6464]

Steve, that was awesome of you to go and look at this car for Scott. Definitely saved him some disappointment, and it was the "not going to buy it" third person that can look at the car without the passion of a potential buyer overlooking issues like a leaking radiator and stuff.

Thanks again for going to look at this car for Scott. I'm proud to know 'ya.

Steve…

I raise my coffee mug to you, well done. Your unbelievable, that was a great pre-PPI inspection with lots of info.

Scott, you just saved yourself a lot of coin and headaches, the guys here are fantastic and this is just an example of that. Your new to this forum and already they treat you like a member of the family….

Steve, I am not impressed easily because lots of people are all talk and no action. But after reading and seeing the picture with your description of the car, I was impressed and proud to know you as well.


Mario


~

 

[Ferrari328GT]

Gee, thank you, Mario. I'm just a humble gearhead. I'm very lucky that I can spend my days playing with cool (and some not-so-cool) cars. BTW, I did a Better Business Bureau search of that used car lot, and they have one complaint of misrepresentation. Ya think???

One quick question. Do 308QV cars still have the old style fuse box with the exposed ceramic fuses? I think they do, but I forgot to look yesterday. -Steve

 

[Boxer]

I second Mario's comments, what you did for Scott was truly good and generous.

 

[wazie7262]

Buying 308QV? NOT THIS ONE!

Hey guys,

I agree with all of you, what Steve did was great, and I realize what his efforts mean to my pocketbook and psyche. This really is a great place to "hang out." Steve sent me some cool 2V cars via the internet last night, but I have to admit that I'm a little concerned about their lack of power. I know that no 308 is especially fast these days but I'd like to get as much as I can! LOL! I have actually driven a 4V some years ago and it was incredbly fun, with an urgent little engine. I have also driven a 348 spider and, for a very short jaunt, a 355 coupe. I'm not sure if it was because the QV was my firts time driving a Ferrari or what, but what I do remember is that is was probably one of the top 10 experiences of my life. I remember it as being more raw than the other two cars (particularly the 355) and more...intimate, perhaps due to its size and "old school" vibe. Anyway...this is not to say that I wouldn't LOVE a 355 or a 348 spider but I have to be realistic with my $ both in purchasing the car, and maintaining it. So...the search goes on. Actually, I really wasn't looking to buy until around June-July, as I was planning on buying cash, but I can't seem to help myself in looking and then I start considering the financing angle/approach. Okay...I've been plenty long-winded here. Thanks agagin to everyone and I very much look forward to continued "conversations."

My Best,

Scott