[Pete04222]

Ferrari is the benchmark. All brands and all "tuners" compare themselves to Ferraris. When a manufacturer wants to prove it's new car, it tests it against a Ferrari. When someone has beefed up their Pontiac or Honda, they tell us how it will beat a Ferrari. Oh there are plenty of people out there to tell us how much Ferraris suck.

I've had people compare their '06 Dodge Hemi to my '79 308 and tell me how much better their car is. Well, "Duh" I would think after 27 years any 4 cylinder engine should outdo an antique carburetted 3.0 liter V-8. Better brakes, better suspension, yeah, I'd expect that.

I like a sportscar to drive around in on the weekends. I happen to like the 308 GTS. It's like driving a go-cart. It's fun. If I had a '79 MG nobody would say shit. I would be that "funny guy with the little red car". But you have a Ferrari and you are in a whole 'nother ball game. Guys rev their engines next to you at the stop light. They want to race a Ferrari. Give it a break man! Your car is faster than mine! I concede, I'm cool with that!

 

[marlin]

Amen to that Pete.
It won't stop them from bulling though.

 

[stile - alpine]

well, Pete, you have the car of everyones dreams, and that is the down side

I´m surprised that you let that bother you

live and let die, you are the one behind the Ferrari wheel

 

[vectra17]

se la vi.
its called progress.
2006 Ford MPV S-max, huge vehicle, can outbrake 1990 ferrari.
The van S-max brakes in fantastic 38 meters.
Also it can outmanouver many hatchbacks, and maybe some ferrari of the 70s.

And there were and always will be cars that are better than ferrari, but there is always one ferrari.

Do you guys know that the Z06 beat the F430 on the track??! I was very,very surprised!!! especially cause the F430 is the best performance ferrari ever, second to enzo,f40,f50 which belong to the supercar class. And because the F430 is three times the price. The preasure is always there. The competition never sleeps. But ferrari has one card on which it plays safely: the horse badge which neither the corvette nor any other car has it on.

 

[Pete04222]

2006 Ford MPV S-max, huge vehicle, can outbrake 1990 ferrari.

See! You just did it there! You took a brand new Ford and told us how it is better than a 16 year old Ferrari when it comes to braking. Duh!! The brakes should be better after 16 years!!

Performance-wise my car can't beat a run-of-the-mill Hyundai. I know it, you know it. It was a high performance car 27 years ago!! It is still enough of a performer that I don't dare to push it to it's limits, that means it is enough car for me. A more powerful car really wouldn't do me any good. I like my 308. Stop telling me how much better your car is. I really don't care.

 

[vectra17]

See! You just did it there! You took a brand new Ford and told us how it is better than a 16 year old Ferrari when it comes to braking. Duh!! The brakes should be better after 16 years!!

Performance-wise my car can't beat a run-of-the-mill Hyundai. I know it, you know it. It was a high performance car 27 years ago!! It is still enough of a performer that I don't dare to push it to it's limits, that means it is enough car for me. A more powerful car really wouldn't do me any good. I like my 308. Stop telling me how much better your car is. I really don't care.

no buddy, I didnt do it. I think you got me all wrong.
I said that I realise what you are saying and expressed myself in the same way:
"its called progress"

Then I mentioned an example that just proves your theory.
''ford van brakes better"

Maybe its my english, maybe its yours, but I didnt do it again ;-)
Now dont worry about what other people say and just enjoy:drive:

 

[vectra17]

See! You just did it there! You took a brand new Ford and told us how it is better than a 16 year old Ferrari when it comes to braking. Duh!! The brakes should be better after 16 years!!

And another thing,
it is not ussual for a 1,7 ton van, and especially one from ford, to have better brakes than 15 year old supercar, even more a ferrari.

Now I did it

 

[Pete04222]

And another thing,
it is not ussual for a 1,7 ton van, and especially one from ford, to have better brakes than 15 year old supercar, even more a ferrari.

Now I did it

Vectra17 - We're cool. I realise that modern minivans will outperform my antique Ferrari when it comes to braking, I just don't like being reminded of it.

 

[marlin]

My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Somewhere out there is a planet where everyone looks the same, drives the same car, supports the same football team, does the same job, follows the same religion, likes the same things and they have a forum where they all tell each other that they like everything about each other. They probably have wars just to break the boredom. Happy Christmas.

 

[Boxer]

I like a sportscar to drive around in on the weekends. I happen to like the 308 GTS. It's like driving a go-cart. It's fun. If I had a '79 MG nobody would say shit. I would be that "funny guy with the little red car". But you have a Ferrari and you are in a whole 'nother ball game. Guys rev their engines next to you at the stop light. They want to race a Ferrari. Give it a break man! Your car is faster than mine! I concede, I'm cool with that!

I have the same problem. In fact most modern sports cars are faster off the line than either of the Ferraris I currently have. On the model that begins with "F" things change after about 2 seconds (turbo lag) but in neither case is this what the car is about. They are both great to drive, both are perfectly weighted and handle fantastically. The brakes are not as efficient as those fitted to this years BMW/Merc/Audi sports sedan but learning how to drive within the older Ferraris limits is part of the art and enjoyment. Yes it is more work but that is what engages the owner/driver and makes these cars special.

A huge percentage of the 90,000 Ferraris that have been produced in the last 59 years are still on the road. No other car manufacturer even comes close. It is the engagement with the driver that leads to this sort of loyality and support.

 

[Andrew]

I STRONGLY disagree that a modern minivan can break better than (maybe and a BIG maybe, they can brake better than a Mondial):

1984 288 GTO
1984 Testarossa
1985 328 GTB
1985 328 GTS
1985 Mondial 3.2 - 3.2 Cabrio
1986 GTB Turbo
1986 GTS Turbo
1987 F40
1989 348 TB
1989 348 TS
1989 Mondial T - T Cabriolet
1991 512 TR

 

[vectra17]

I STRONGLY disagree that a modern minivan can break better than (maybe and a BIG maybe, they can brake better than a Mondial):

1984 288 GTO
1984 Testarossa
1985 328 GTB
1985 328 GTS
1985 Mondial 3.2 - 3.2 Cabrio
1986 GTB Turbo
1986 GTS Turbo
1987 F40
1989 348 TB
1989 348 TS
1989 Mondial T - T Cabriolet
1991 512 TR

And how do you back it up?
There isnt information of the braking distance of these ferraris. (or I missed it) I have read long ago infos on TR that brakes in 40 m. If you have any info about the braking distance of any ferrari, post it here.
I recently posted the BD of 599 GTB. It brakes in fantastic 30 m, and it is definatelly a record. The best know brakes earlier were some 33-34 m to the likes of porsche gt3 and bmw M3 CLS and even citroen C2 vtr.
Porche boxter had however terrible brakes at 38m.

 

[Pete04222]

It is the engagement with the driver that leads to this sort of loyality and support.

That is very well said and expresses excellently how I feel.

We've got a Mercedes and a Dodge truck and they are nice, they are great daily drivers, but those are cars that you hop in to, put into "drive" and go for a ride.
We've also got a Ferrari and a Jeep, those are cars that you hop in to and go for a drive. You are more a part of the machine with these cars, you watch the road, you think about what gear you are in, you make decisions, you are a part of the machinery. The car doesn't treat you like a passenger, you are the driver, you are in control. It's like the car is saying, "I've got a lot of power and traction. How would you wish to apply it?"

I think it was Mario who reminded me that Enzo Ferrari said that the Jeep was the only true American sportscar. I think Enzo believed in the feeling of the man-machine interface. Driving a Jeep is completely different than driving a Ferrari but the man-machine interface feeling is the same. With the Ferrari you are looking at the open road, with the Jeep you are looking at the open trail. You look at a really nasty part of the trail that you know in your heart you would have a difficult time just walking through and the Jeep says, "I can go through that with your help."

 

[jungathart]

A huge percentage of the 90,000 Ferraris that have been produced in the last 59 years are still on the road. No other car manufacturer even comes close.

Hi Boxer, I wonder how all the major automotive marques rate. I remember something about Rolls-Royces having incredible longevity.

 

[vectra17]

That is very well said and expresses excellently how I feel.

We've got a Mercedes and a Dodge truck and they are nice, they are great daily drivers, but those are cars that you hop in to, put into "drive" and go for a ride.
We've also got a Ferrari and a Jeep, those are cars that you hop in to and go for a drive. You are more a part of the machine with these cars, you watch the road, you think about what gear you are in, you make decisions, you are a part of the machinery. The car doesn't treat you like a passenger, you are the driver, you are in control. It's like the car is saying, "I've got a lot of power and traction. How would you wish to apply it?"

I think it was Mario who reminded me that Enzo Ferrari said that the Jeep was the only true American sportscar. I think Enzo believed in the feeling of the man-machine interface. Driving a Jeep is completely different than driving a Ferrari but the man-machine interface feeling is the same. With the Ferrari you are looking at the open road, with the Jeep you are looking at the open trail. You look at a really nasty part of the trail that you know in your heart you would have a difficult time just walking through and the Jeep says, "I can go through that with your help."

the corvette is the only true American sportscar.

 

[Pete04222]

the corvette is the only true American sportscar.

I disagree. I think the Corvette was designed to compete with the European sportscars. And it does a great job at it. Where the Europeans limit their engine sizes for tax purposes, the 308 being only 3 liter displacement, the Corvette sported an engine over 7.4 liters.

I think the Jeep is something that is truly, thump the bible, honest to God, made in America. It doesn't take it's design from anywhere else. It is the durable, reliable, go anywhere, do anything car that really symbolizes what the US of A is all about.

Automotive history books remember Italy for the Ferrari, they remember America for the Ford model T and the Jeep.

 

[Boxer]

I disagree. I think the Corvette was designed to compete with the European sportscars. And it does a great job at it. Where the Europeans limit their engine sizes for tax purposes, the 308 being only 3 liter displacement, the Corvette sported an engine over 7.4 liters.

I think the Jeep is something that is truly, thump the bible, honest to God, made in America. It doesn't take it's design from anywhere else. It is the durable, reliable, go anywhere, do anything car that really symbolizes what the US of A is all about.

Automotive history books remember Italy for the Ferrari, they remember America for the Ford model T and the Jeep.

Funny, when I think of an American supercar, the first one that comes to mind is the original Ford GT40 which was actually made in the UK. A few other are the Shelby Corbra, Dodge Viper, and AMC Pacer ( ).

Any idea on why the US has never had a small specialist car industry ? My assumption is legislation and fear of lawsuits.

 

[vectra17]

I disagree. I think the Corvette was designed to compete with the European sportscars. And it does a great job at it. Where the Europeans limit their engine sizes for tax purposes, the 308 being only 3 liter displacement, the Corvette sported an engine over 7.4 liters.

I think the Jeep is something that is truly, thump the bible, honest to God, made in America. It doesn't take it's design from anywhere else. It is the durable, reliable, go anywhere, do anything car that really symbolizes what the US of A is all about.

Automotive history books remember Italy for the Ferrari, they remember America for the Ford model T and the Jeep.

well then...
The corvette may have been designed to compete with european sports cars, but it is american sports car, and probably the first one designed to do that. Also the americans like to think that the corvette is the only true sports car, although they made large variety of sport vehicles after the Vette.

I dont see how the Jeep can be only true sports car. The Jeep is the symbol of american automotive, but it is offroad vehicle, not a sports car.

Funny, when I think of an American supercar, the first one that comes to mind is the original Ford GT40 which was actually made in the UK. A few other are the Shelby Corbra, Dodge Viper, and AMC Pacer ( ).

Any idea on why the US has never had a small specialist car industry ? My assumption is legislation and fear of lawsuits.

The ford GT40 was a supercar, the corvette is (only true) sports car. Thats the difference between the two. GT40 being made in UK doesnt mean nothing. Its a Ford. We all know the story that Ferrari was to be sold to Ford, then canceled the sell out, and Ford got very angry and built the GT40 to beat every Ferrari on the planet.

Why americans didnt build small cars with small engines?
Answer: why did we build small cars with small engines. We were doing wrong kind of vehicles not they. They could afford big powerfull cars, and their gas price was cheaper than water.

 

[Pete04222]

Why americans didnt build small cars with small engines?
Answer: why did we build small cars with small engines. We were doing wrong kind of vehicles not they. They could afford big powerfull cars, and their gas price was cheaper than water.

America did try out a small car with a small engine after WW2. The Crosley. I have enclosed a picture, my Dad actually owns one. It was a flop. The postwar American economy was booming, we had a huge middle class. The world's best highway system and like you said, cheap gas. The cars are not taxed on engine displacement. People wanted powerful cars, big cars, and they could afford them. The Crosley went away and out comes the Chevrolet Bel Air and the big old Cadillacs. People build hot rods. The fifties was America's golden age. Drive-ins and drag strips. Big cars, big engines.

 

[Pete04222]

Forgot to attach the picture.