[Downdraft]

Hello, I am new on this list and this is my first post.

My name is Alex. I am thinking about purchasing a 365BB or a carbureted 512BB – I must say that I am leaning towards the 4.4. liter due to the exclusivity (approx. 400 units compared to 2000 of the 512) and the 6 tailpipes in the back are quite unique.

Insomuch as the pricing (I live in Italy) – it seems that 365BBs are about Euro 13.000-18.000 more expensive than 512Bs.

Are there any red flags that I should know about before going ahead with the next phase (parts availability, reliability, etc.).

From what I could gather the main difference between the two power plants (besides the extra 600ccs) is that the 512BB is a dry sump – were there oil related failures in the 365BB? Why did Ferrari make this move, it wasn’t for HP since the HP per liter actually decreased on the 512 versions.

Several years ago I drove a 512Bbi and I remember the drive as extremely smooth and progressive. I currently own an ‘86 Lamborghini quattrovalvole downdraft that has an extremely brutal power curve and I hope that the carbureted 365BB and 512 versions have a little more “umph” – comments?

Lastly, as an investment, what do you see as a future market value – currently, here in Europe, nice 365BBs are going for between Euro 75.000 and 85.000 while 512BBs are in the Euro 60.000 to 75.000 price range (not interested in purchasing a car that is in need of restoration). The 512bbi versions go for about Euro 5.000 less.

I remember that with the bubble market of the late 80s the 512s reached a peak of Euro 300.000. The Lamborghini Miura also reached these levels and that too fell to the 512 levels until 2 or 3 years ago – now for a nice Miura the price level is back up to 75% of the “bubble” price.

Sorry for running on so much.

Alex

 

[backindauk]

Alex,

Welcome to the forum

I would certainly take both for a drive if you can, and choose what you like better. As simple as it sounds, you dont want to buy one and then be disappointed that you didn't buy the other (in an ideal world, you could buy both)

I personally like the 512BB, however i think that the wheels dont look right on them. The lights and rear are cool on the 365.

Are you wanting a car that is more powerful/faster than your Lamborghini altogether?

I would personally take the 512BB.


I must also add that i have not driven either of these cars, so my point of view is from a fairly "spectator" type perspective.


Andrew

By the way, Love the Lamborghini

 

[Boxer]

Alex,

Welcome to the site and good luck with your search. Regarding your questions, suggest you start by taking a look at the Boxer Buyer's GUide in the Ferrari Forum Members section. In general, the 365 BB is the rawest, the 512 BB was a more refined model which addressed several issues inherient in the 365 BB, and the 512BBi is the easiest to live with (but looses the great Carb soundtrack and "umph"). In terms of price, my guess is that they will showly start to move up as they age and move from just being older models to Classics. When loking at different cars, history is very important and buy the best one you can afford. Major restoration work on a Boxer can put a truck size hole in your wallet.

Cheers

 

[Downdraft]

Andrew,

Thanks for your welcome.

Why do you say the wheels are different - the only detail that I noticed was that the USA versions have lug nuts, while all of the 365 BBs and some 512ss have knock-offs. Yes the back end looks much cleaner and the 6 rear lights and 6 tailpipes ad character.

No way these cars will be faster or quicker than the downdraft 4 valve Countach - there is over 100 HP difference and over 1.2 seconds in the 0-60MPH times - however the lines of the 365/512 are spectacular and it's not a slouch.

How many 365/512s are there on this list?

How is the air conditioning? I presume it was standard equipment on all the cars?

Alex

 

[gma365]

Good luck in your search. I bought a 365 instead of 512 for a few reasons, including rarity(387cars), unadulterated looks(unlike 512bbi), louder exhaust noise, raw race car feel, and the list goes on........If you buy the best car you can afford, then you can't go wrong. By the way, the airconditioning in my car (lives in Australia) works as best as you can expect from an Italian aircon unit(not well at all!!)

 

[ajengli]

Sorry can't comment on the 365 vs 512 dicussion - but aircon in older cars (obviously inc Ferraris) can be a bit of a maintenance nightmare.

From a personnal point of view my car sits unused for weeks on end (esp in wet & cold UK winter), this is no good for the aircon and if I wanted to keep the aircon in working order it would need constant re-gassing and use. It is also something to do with the type of refrigerant used in older cars compared with what is used now (something to do with CFCs and tree-huggers).

If the newer type of gas is used in older aircon systems (I think pre '91 or something like that) then it is much more prone to leaking therefore the need for more frequent re-gassing. You can get the old system adapted to use new refrigerant but this is an expensive job.

I have come accross a few websites giving loads of detail on this subject, even one describing how to overhaul and refit an aircon system on a 308gtb - fairly cheep if you do it yourself (as with anything Ferrari related). I've just typed "air con" into the search on this forum and it returned 187 matches so probably worth a browse.

 

[Boxer]

Andrew,

Thanks for your welcome.

Why do you say the wheels are different - the only detail that I noticed was that the USA versions have lug nuts, while all of the 365 BBs and some 512ss have knock-offs. Yes the back end looks much cleaner and the 6 rear lights and 6 tailpipes ad character.

No way these cars will be faster or quicker than the downdraft 4 valve Countach - there is over 100 HP difference and over 1.2 seconds in the 0-60MPH times - however the lines of the 365/512 are spectacular and it's not a slouch.

How many 365/512s are there on this list?

How is the air conditioning? I presume it was standard equipment on all the cars?

Alex

Alex,

All the US Boxers are grey market conversions. Ferrari never officially imported any of the 3 Boxer models into the US. As part of the conversion process to meet US DOT regulations, all the wheels had to have the knock-offs replaced by lug nuts.

A well tuned Boxer should be able to give a Countach a good run for it's money.

There where 387, 365 BB's and 929, 512 BB's produced.

The airconditioning itself is actually not that bad. The problem is that the water pipes run from the radiators in the nose of the car to the engine behind the bulkhead. To do so they pass right under the cabin and therefore generate extra heat in the car. In the winter it is not a problem but it can get a bit hot on a very warm day in the summer.

Cheers

 

[250lm]

A couple of years ago I caught a ride in a 1978 carbed 512bb and the owner told me it was a nightmare to get some proper tyres for the car to replace the worn out once. Don´t know if it is a problem that only was temporary and local (the Netherlands) or that this can be a structural problem.

Another story on the tyre issue was told by a 308 owner: the local EPA/DOT did not want to fit the original tyres on the car (with max. velocity of 240 km/h) since the car could run faster. Only when proof was given that the factory installed the same type of tyres when new, they agreed to install those under the car.

In short, check out the availabilty of tyres and the like in your region.

Niels

 

[Boxer]

I have not had an issue sourcing Boxer tires in the UK. They cost a king's randsom but supply is not an issue.