Ferrari Life Forum banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
265 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Dear Comrades,

Are the electronic Ferrari's merely Computers On Wheels (acronym COWS) and not really proper Ferrari's at all? Are they more akin to a 'Fart In A Trance' (Acronym FIAT)? This potentially being the case it thus begs the question as to which model was indeed the last proper Ferrari?

With kind regards,

Vulcan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,928 Posts
Dear comrade Vulcan F-40,

I have read many times that purists believe the last true Ferrari's were the models overseen by the great man himself. Therefore, it must be the F40, 328 and Testarossa.

I don't really subscribe to this view, as, if Enzo had been around today, I'm sure he would have adopted technology and electronics too. Afterall, it would be difficult to run a F1 team without electronics and computers.

I am not a fan of the most recent model line up, but there have been some great cars made after Enzo's death which also incorporate technology.

512TR behemothic thaumaturgical road burning tyre shredding dream machine
F355
F50
550M
and even the Enzo

Just my opinion

Best regards
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
In my view, totally subjective of course, it horribly went wrong after the 355.

- after the 355 no stunning beautifull F cars were made
- after the 355 it started with the electronic playstation toys
- after the 355 the cars become more and more practical
- after the 355 the driving position wasn't 'italian' any more
- after the 355 the F marketing machine really gained momentum ( a F parfume?? what's that? it should smell like burning rubber, fuel, hot metals, and exhausts...)

Just my totally irrelevant opinion about the 'pure' F experience, hope it's absoluty no offence to anyone.

(And to be fare I can also make a list why the models after the 355 are way better)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Very interesting question, and I imagine every individual person has their own thoughts on this. We all know the stories (not sure if they're 100% accurate or not) that Enzo only sold road cars to fund his racing team. As such it seems the philosophy of the time was to adapt the racing technology and designs he was using to a road car. Granted Ferrari road cars of the day (40's-60's I'm thinking) ranged from basically a street legal race car to a 2+2 GT, but my point is at least they all had some sort of common architecture to the race cars (engine design etc.).
Where it gets murky is that todays race cars are so far removed from the reality of road cars, the technology and performance desparity is much greater than it was then, so things get tricky for Ferrari... continue making a "traditional" Ferrari, or assemble F1 car bits into a street legal package as much as possible. It's just a matter of how you look at it.

For me, the 550/575 was the last of what I call the "classic" Ferrari's.. Especially the 550 since it has minimal technical wizardry, and is still mostly a basic mechanical object (as much as a modern EFI car can be). I really have no interest in the newer models, simply because I enjoy driving and knowing that *I* am driving, not the car. This issue has come up a lot with the new Nissan GTR as well. I'm currently driving a 1973 Porsche 911 Targa... and I think it's pretty close to being the most fun of anything I've ever driven.. not fast (140HP doesn't do that much), it stinks (I overfilled the oil so it occasionally drains onto the exhaust manifolds and comes through the heat vents), but puts a grin on my face everytime. 550 would probably do that if I could ever drive it fast enough to be interesting (120mph=yawn).

That said, I still give the modern Ferrari's full credit as being "real" Ferrari's... I just don't want one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,928 Posts
- after the 355 the F marketing machine really gained momentum ( a F parfume?? what's that? it should smell like burning rubber, fuel, hot metals, and exhausts...)
I think they sold out before then, didn't they allow Mattel to make a pink 348 for Barbie in the early 90's? I think that Pete's got a white Barbie 3x8 too.

The real scent of a Ferrari, since I sold the 328 my garage has lost that wonderful aroma of oil and gas. The Alfa has taken up the Ferrari's parking space, but it doesn't have that smell:(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,738 Posts
Concurr

Very interesting question, and I imagine every individual person has their own thoughts on this. We all know the stories (not sure if they're 100% accurate or not) that Enzo only sold road cars to fund his racing team. As such it seems the philosophy of the time was to adapt the racing technology and designs he was using to a road car. Granted Ferrari road cars of the day (40's-60's I'm thinking) ranged from basically a street legal race car to a 2+2 GT, but my point is at least they all had some sort of common architecture to the race cars (engine design etc.).
Where it gets murky is that todays race cars are so far removed from the reality of road cars, the technology and performance desparity is much greater than it was then, so things get tricky for Ferrari... continue making a "traditional" Ferrari, or assemble F1 car bits into a street legal package as much as possible. It's just a matter of how you look at it.

For me, the 550/575 was the last of what I call the "classic" Ferrari's.. Especially the 550 since it has minimal technical wizardry, and is still mostly a basic mechanical object (as much as a modern EFI car can be). I really have no interest in the newer models, simply because I enjoy driving and knowing that *I* am driving, not the car. This issue has come up a lot with the new Nissan GTR as well. I'm currently driving a 1973 Porsche 911 Targa... and I think it's pretty close to being the most fun of anything I've ever driven.. not fast (140HP doesn't do that much), it stinks (I overfilled the oil so it occasionally drains onto the exhaust manifolds and comes through the heat vents), but puts a grin on my face everytime. 550 would probably do that if I could ever drive it fast enough to be interesting (120mph=yawn).

That said, I still give the modern Ferrari's full credit as being "real" Ferrari's... I just don't want one.
Well, BBShriver pretty much said it for me (much more eloquently than I could). I share the same sentiment. My Abarth 750GT Zagato is probably the slowest car I own but yet it may be one of the most "fun" car. Jimmy
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
6,320 Posts
- after the 355 the cars become more and more practical
- after the 355 the driving position wasn't 'italian' any more
- after the 355 the F marketing machine really gained momentum ( a F parfume?? what's that? it should smell like burning rubber, fuel, hot metals, and exhausts...)
I completely agree with the above and I think this is what makes them less "pure" if we can say that. The computers don't bother me, it is the practical side of it. The computers in the F430 have greatly improved the cars performance, but when you drive the car, it feels very tame and too comfortable.

When I drive a 308, the wheel does not adjust, the seats are not comfortable, you are sitting on the floor, rear visibility, what's that?

The F430 is the opposite of all the above. The engine pedigree and exhaust note remain, the cabin and looks have just gone too soft.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,404 Posts
In my view, totally subjective of course, it horribly went wrong after the 355.

- after the 355 no stunning beautifull F cars were made
- after the 355 it started with the electronic playstation toys
- after the 355 the cars become more and more practical
- after the 355 the driving position wasn't 'italian' any more
- after the 355 the F marketing machine really gained momentum ( a F parfume?? what's that? it should smell like burning rubber, fuel, hot metals, and exhausts...)

Just my totally irrelevant opinion about the 'pure' F experience, hope it's absoluty no offence to anyone.

(And to be fare I can also make a list why the models after the 355 are way better)
I, naturally (as owner of a model released after the 550), have to protest vehemently against several of these statements.

1. The 550 is gorgeous to me, and so is the F430, particularly the spider version.
2. It was actually the F355 that introduced the "playstation toys" with the F1 gearbox. Although my car has ASR, it is a wonderfully pure machine when you switch it off.
3. My 550 is indeed (somewhat) practical, but is that such an 'unferrari-like" thing? The 330 GTC, 365 GT2+2, 400 series, you name them - Ferrari has been making practical cars for 50 years IMHO, and in fact are just as well known for their continent-crushing GT's as they are for their racing cars.
4. No italian driving position? Hurrah!
5. Marketing has cheapened the brand a little but at the same time it has widened the popularity of the marque and made it more well-known. It brings in a lot of revenue and whilst we may think it's a bit cheap now and again; if they use it to create new exciting cars, who are we to complain.

All in all, I don't think the gloom is all there. Ferrari makes wonderful cars at the moment. Maybe the styling isn't quite to your liking, but those times will come again. I was horrified when the 512BBi was replaced with the Testarossa! And then the 550 came out and all was well again. So it comes and goes, and it'll come again.

All IMHO of course.


Onno



Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
I, naturally (as owner of a model released after the 550), have to protest vehemently against several of these statements.


Onno
You are absoluty right. I think all Ferrari's are great, some are even brilliant.
And certainly the current models are 'better':safer, more usable, more reliable and the looks aren't bad either. (actually I like the new California despite the girl's car comments)

But my baised opinion is based on this; driving a 355 fast and well is a very rewarding balancing game between courage, skills, ability and fear. (To bad I haven't any of the first three and lots of the fourth;))
The modern models camouflages this addictive game a bit. Which is a good thing. It makes the great potential explorable and enjoyable for the non schumachers (like me). But for some strange reason thight rope walking without the safety net seems more rewarding..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,404 Posts
Louis,

I liked your post a lot because although I can bring in many arguments against it, I understood exactly what you were saying. And I agree with the overall sentiment.

The question is always: where lies the balance? The balance between power, speed, real world usability, fear, and rewards? The answer is of course: that entirely depends on the driver. But one thing is for sure: the skill of drivers is not really improving that much, and Ferrari's capabilities are, and indeed rapidly so. So we need some way to reign in that power so people don't use it in a stupid way. For many drivers' skill level, the F355 is a dangerous tool. A mid-engined car with 380 bhp is asking for trouble, really. And people don't really understand what they're playing with until it goes wrong. So yeah, driving without driving aids is purer and gives you more satisfacfion. But when you write off the car (which, BTW, can easily happen at 40 km/h - you don't have to travel all that fast), wouldn't you think for just one second "if only I had had ASR"?

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, please forgive me. But I wonder - how many times have you put your F355 into power oversteer? I have my 550, many times, without problems. But I overcooked it once and that was a revealing lesson to learn. The car could have been off to the Big Racetrack in the Sky... Since then I've been thinking: maybe leaving the safety net off is not all it's cracked up to be.... And if you've driven any Ferrari in the rain or snow, you will definitely agree with that sentiment! :)


Onno



Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
But I wonder - how many times have you put your F355 into power oversteer?

Onno
Not many times and most were not on purpuse:)

I drove at Francorchamps a few weeks ago in the rain, really scary. I saw 4 Ferrari's go off with terrible consequences (348, 2x 360 and suprisingly a 430 as well). I had more then a few 'moments'. The real good part was being able to survive these with some reactions I never thought I was capable off.
No systems, to my own suprise it was just me.:cool: Still have to smile when I think off it:D ...It just felt great.

As usual, Onno, you are right. It's better to help most drivers (me included) enjoy the huge potential of their great cars. But sometimes....
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top