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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,
First of all, thanks to all in advance for any help you can give me. I am interested in adding a prancing horse to my stable of vintage automobiles, but could really use some guidance.
I have the opportunity to buy a 330 project (a 4-headlight GT) which is in horrendous condition. It has no engine and has been outdoors for at least 10 years. The rust is not the worst I have seen, but it is there, and lots of surface rust as well. The interior is shot thanks to the lack of a windshield for some portion of its "storage." Some of the chrome is still present, as are the correct wheels. I am dying to buy this car, and have prepared myself for a lengthy and expensive restoration.

The question I have is: What should I pay for such a car?? I have an idea of what it will be worth at the end of the resto process, but that is so far and so many checks away that I am at a total loss. I know there is no way to offer a real assesment of its value without seeing the car, but ANY guidance you could offer would be hugely appreciated. Just picture the worst 330 you have ever seen (at least not wrecked) and that's what I'm looking at.

Thanks in advance,
Matt Wright
 

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Lots of variables here. First is that the 4 headlight 2+2 is not one of the more desirable or collectible Ferraris to begin with. In showroom condition the car isn't worth $100k. An imperfect restoration without the original engine and you are looking at a car that won't get half that, maybe not even a third.
The biggest problem is the lack of an engine. Since the engine is what makes a Ferrari a Ferrari and is probably the hardest part to find a replacement for, that dramatically affects the value of the car. I'm assuming the transmission is missing also. There's the missing windshield, also a high dollar and hard to find part. I think if you were to obtain this car you would spend many 10's of thousands of dollars on it and never recoup the money you spent nor ever actually drive it.

I hate to bust your balloon, but I think the car is too far gone and missing the engine makes the car a very bad candidate for a restoration. If the owner gave it to you he wouldn't be doing you any favors. The car, in the condition it is in, would only be worth some money to someone that already has a running 330 and needs it for parts.

This, of course, is only my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Pete04222 said:
I hate to bust your balloon, but I think the car is too far gone and missing the engine makes the car a very bad candidate for a restoration. If the owner gave it to you he wouldn't be doing you any favors. The car, in the condition it is in, would only be worth some money to someone that already has a running 330 and needs it for parts.

This, of course, is only my opinion.
That's why I came here to the experts! Or at least those who are more seasoned than I in this realm. My personal history lies in the early Porsche arena, and while parts for a twin-grille Roadster can be difficult to come by, I was sure a Ferrari resto would be entering a new area of frustration. I very much appreciate your taking the time to help me out, and you may have REALLY helped me out, or saved me. I will continue to do some research, but this has certainly pointed me in a direction.
 

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Oh, and if you are thinking "Well I'm pretty good with a welder and I'll just drop a small block Chevy engine in it.", be aware that a restored '69 Camaro with a non-original Chevy engine is worth way more money than a '64 Ferrari 330 2+2 with a Chevy engine. The parts are more readily available and cheap for the Camaro also.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Pete04222 said:
Oh, and if you are thinking "Well I'm pretty good with a welder and I'll just drop a small block Chevy engine in it."
I wouldn't drop a small block chevy into a lake if my boat was floating away, much less into a vintage automobile. :D
 

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If you really want to add a prancing horse to your collection of vintage automobiles, consider a 308 or the more desirable 246. If you want the 12 cylinder, check out the TR. All 3 of those models are ones the backyard mechanic can easily maintain.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks Pete. I was thinking of a Dino as another possibility.
I actually know of a 246 that I might be able to talk an old guy into selling. It sits outside in the weather, very sad. It's a coupe in very similar condition to that 330 I was talking about, except the engine and transmission are intact. Any idea what I would expect to pay for it? It won't be a robbery because the guy tries to stay pretty clued in to things, but I'm fine paying a fair price these days. Would a 246 with some rust, no glass, shot interior but with drivetrain and lots of surface rust be worth attempting?
I have to say THANKS again for the advice.
- Matt
 

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For a 246, If it is running and complete, but is in rough shape, with no glass, a shot interior and exterior, needing full upolstery and paint, I would say no more than $10k. This is a car you can work with; you'll probably put another $20-30k into it but it will be worth around $90k when you are done.

If it is not running it is worth less than $10k!!

This, of course, is just my opinion.
 

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BTW- I'm glad I live in Maine instead of New York, all of our cars still have the glass in them.
 

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330wanna said:
Thanks Pete. I was thinking of a Dino as another possibility.
I actually know of a 246 that I might be able to talk an old guy into selling. It sits outside in the weather, very sad. It's a coupe in very similar condition to that 330 I was talking about, except the engine and transmission are intact. Any idea what I would expect to pay for it? It won't be a robbery because the guy tries to stay pretty clued in to things, but I'm fine paying a fair price these days. Would a 246 with some rust, no glass, shot interior but with drivetrain and lots of surface rust be worth attempting?
I have to say THANKS again for the advice.
- Matt
Matt, I share Pete's opinions on the 330. It might have some parts value but that is it. Any resoration attempt will run $$$$$ more than the final value. On the 246 GT, again in its present condition it has some parts value but that is it. If you are lucky the resoration costs wil be equal to its market value when you are done (and this is assuming that Dinos stay at keep the price premium they have been run up to in the last 2+ years). The Dino might only be a good option (assuming a price of $10-15k) if the engine and drive train are in good condition and will not need a rebuild. Cheers Boxer
 

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330wanna said:
Hi,
First of all, thanks to all in advance for any help you can give me. I am interested in adding a prancing horse to my stable of vintage automobiles, but could really use some guidance.
I have the opportunity to buy a 330 project (a 4-headlight GT) which is in horrendous condition. It has no engine and has been outdoors for at least 10 years. The rust is not the worst I have seen, but it is there, and lots of surface rust as well. The interior is shot thanks to the lack of a windshield for some portion of its "storage." Some of the chrome is still present, as are the correct wheels. I am dying to buy this car, and have prepared myself for a lengthy and expensive restoration.

The question I have is: What should I pay for such a car?? I have an idea of what it will be worth at the end of the resto process, but that is so far and so many checks away that I am at a total loss. I know there is no way to offer a real assesment of its value without seeing the car, but ANY guidance you could offer would be hugely appreciated. Just picture the worst 330 you have ever seen (at least not wrecked) and that's what I'm looking at.

Thanks in advance,
Matt Wright
Matt, Suggest you take a look at the following article:

Ferrari Life Quarterly - Issue 2 April 2006

Vintage Ferrari Budget Fantasy
Can owning a Vintage Ferrari be done cheap?

which is based on a 330 S1 which was purchased in good condition.

It can be downloaded from: http://www.ferrarilife.com/flq/
 

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Boxer said:
Matt, I share Pete's opinions on the 330. It might have some parts value but that is it. Any resoration attempt will run $$$$$ more than the final value. On the 246 GT, again in its present condition it has some parts value but that is it. If you are lucky the resoration costs wil be equal to its market value when you are done (and this is assuming that Dinos stay at keep the price premium they have been run up to in the last 2+ years). The Dino might only be a good option (assuming a price of $10-15k) if the engine and drive train are in good condition and will not need a rebuild. Cheers Boxer
Boxer,
You don't believe a 246 in the condition described would be worth the effort? I'm figuring 10k for the car, 5-7k to get it running properly, 7k for the interior and 15k for the exterior, throw in a few thousand for slop and I think for 40k you would have a decent 246 worth well more than what you've got in it. This is a 2 year project but I think it would be worth doing. (provided the car is complete)

As for parts value, any vintage Ferrari is worth more as parts. I'm pretty sure I could disassemble my 308 and sell the individual parts for more than I could get for the complete running car.
 

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I just checked NADA and they are showing the value of a '72 246 Coupe in "mechanically functional condition, needing only minor reconditioning" as $45k. The value of a completely restored one is $114k. I've found NADA values to be very inflated when you are trying to sell a car, but it does give you an idea of what the professionals would like to get for the cars.

Matt,
I stand by my original assertion that this 246 is a good candidate for a restoration. If it is complete, the guy will let it go for $10k and you can start it up and drive it onto the trailer for the ride home you won't lose any money on it. Ever. If you can't start it up and drive it onto the trailer because the engine is siezed and it is missing stuff like carburettors and the steering column, then Boxer is right and the car is best used for parts.
 

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Pete04222 said:
Boxer,
You don't believe a 246 in the condition described would be worth the effort? I'm figuring 10k for the car, 5-7k to get it running properly, 7k for the interior and 15k for the exterior, throw in a few thousand for slop and I think for 40k you would have a decent 246 worth well more than what you've got in it. This is a 2 year project but I think it would be worth doing. (provided the car is complete)

As for parts value, any vintage Ferrari is worth more as parts. I'm pretty sure I could disassemble my 308 and sell the individual parts for more than I could get for the complete running car.
Pete, Financially it might work out if you can do all the work yourself. If you have to have a restoration shop do it for you, then the cost easily can double from $40k to $80k+.
 

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Boxer said:
Pete, Financially it might work out if you can do all the work yourself. If you have to have a restoration shop do it for you, then the cost easily can double from $40k to $80k+.
Agreed. I was assuming doing all the work yourself with the exception of the final paint job.
 
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