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Discussion Starter #1
Hello Group,

I am a new member and I very much enjoy the group's discussion and passion for driving their cars. I am looking at adding either a Boxer or a Fiberglass 308. I am looking for a great driving experience with little downside potential. I would appreciate thoughts from the group and their impressions on these Ferraris.

Thank you.
Alex365
 

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Hello Group,

I am a new member and I very much enjoy the group's discussion and passion for driving their cars. I am looking at adding either a Boxer or a Fiberglass 308.--- I would appreciate thoughts from the group and their impressions on these Ferraris.---
Alex

You should post your hello in the new members section so more folks see it and your interests in the models you mentioned show go into the respective sections as well so you can get good responses.

Welcome to F. L.
 

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I have owned a 365BB, 512 BB and a Fiberglass 308 GTB. They are all very different cars (and there is a lot of difference even between the different Boxer models). The 308 is light and agile vs more of the brute force of the Boxers. Best thing you can do is drive both back to back and see which puts the biggest smile on your face.

I have put together a few thoughts in a couple of different articles for FLQ (suggest you look at Issues 2, 3 & 10). You can download the back issues:

http://www.ferrarilife.com/flq/flq.php

JazzyO, Vitalone, and Jimmy Chen Shiba also have extensive experience.
 

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These are very different cars, but I understand your thinking as I had both of them as options on my shopping list 6 months ago.

As Boxer suggests, I would definitely drive them beforehand if at all possible. The Boxer is more of a brute, the 308 more of a driver's car at home at twisty sections. The 308 is easier to drive, but which one is more rewarding is mostly dependent on which road you're on and how you're using it. The glorious howl of the 365 was enough for me to make it an easy decision. :)

One thing to consider is that a 365 is in a slightly different league financially. It is about 60% more expensive, but it is also twice as rare and the fibreglass does suffer a little bit from the connection with the other 308's. People don't consider them rare cars, except for those in the know (722 built). The BB is also a lot more expensive to maintain, requiring regular major services, and some parts can be hard to come by.

If you are getting a 308 vetro, have it checked out. Because they are lighter than regular 308's, they frequently have been raced and as a result can have flexy chassis'.

Both are great cars to have, and they both have a bit of mystique about them. Not too many people have driven a 308 vetroresina (including me!), and the same goes for the BB.

Ultimately, it depends mostly on your preference, and a little bit on your budget.

Good luck deciding!


Onno



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Not too many people have driven a 308 vetroresina (including me!), and the same goes for the BB.

Onno
Come the Spring, I would be very happy for you to take the 308 vetroresina for a drive. It is being fettled, including a conversion of the heads to run on lead free petrol, and should be ready by the Spring. It is a wonderful drive and after the fettling, should be even more representative of a great driving 308 GTB.

Back to the thread, I think that Boxer and Onno have put it very well. The 308 is the fun sportscar, the BB is the serious supercar with associated running costs. I would love to have both!
 

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I've not owned either models so its hard to say from an owners perspective. However from what I know the 308 is an easier car to live with, easier to drive, cheaper to run. But between the two I would go for a BB anyday!

1. Better looking (IMHO)
2. Is likely to appreciate over time, where as the 308 will likely to remain stable.
3. Rarer

Downside of the BB
1. Running costs
2. Running costs
3. Harder to drive. A 308 could be used in almost any situation (including work), but the BB will kill you on petrol alone! Being able to drive it around town is a different matter! Saying that I would still have one.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thank you JazzyO and Boxer on your comments and suggestions.
I have read all the back issues of FLQ on Boxers and 308s. They have been very informative, and , these comments above are very powerful and distill the essence down to a few adjectives describing the differences.

Unfortunately, being able to drive these is more difficult. 365 BB are extremely rare here in the States. Currently just one for sale. However, there are a host of BBi's. And one low mileage Fiberglass 308. I love what everyone has said about the 365 BB. Presently, they are trading close to 200K USD, where BBi's are around 120K USD. Are they worth the difference in your estimation? Of course the 308 are even cheaper. With all this said I still am looking for a rewarding long term driving experience.

Alex365
 

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Thank you JazzyO and Boxer on your comments and suggestions.
I have read all the back issues of FLQ on Boxers and 308s. They have been very informative, and , these comments above are very powerful and distill the essence down to a few adjectives describing the differences.

Unfortunately, being able to drive these is more difficult. 365 BB are extremely rare here in the States. Currently just one for sale. However, there are a host of BBi's. And one low mileage Fiberglass 308. I love what everyone has said about the 365 BB. Presently, they are trading close to 200K USD, where BBi's are around 120K USD. Are they worth the difference in your estimation? Of course the 308 are even cheaper. With all this said I still am looking for a rewarding long term driving experience.

Alex365
Personally, a BB needs to have carbs. Without it you really loose a key part of the whole experience.
 

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Unfortunately, being able to drive these is more difficult. 365 BB are extremely rare here in the States. Currently just one for sale. However, there are a host of BBi's. And one low mileage Fiberglass 308. I love what everyone has said about the 365 BB. Presently, they are trading close to 200K USD, where BBi's are around 120K USD. Are they worth the difference in your estimation? Of course the 308 are even cheaper. With all this said I still am looking for a rewarding long term driving experience.

Alex365
Sorry Alex, I was not aware you are in the States. Because of DOT/EPA, this is a very different market than in Europe. You should be able to secure a good LHD 365 for $150k in Europe (EUR120k), but in the States they are still trading close to $200k as you say, IF you can find one. To compare: I drove a 365, 512BB and BBi in the UK on one day (as you will have read), and the 365 was the cheapest! And it is a good car. Just shows you how different markets can be.

I don't think going through the conversion is an option these days, so importing from Europe is out, otherwise that would have been a good option.

So - if we just look at the States... To say that 365's are worth the difference is a personal statement. I think, in terms of collectability, yes. But $80k is a free 550 Maranello nowadays, and that's a whole lot of difference! Viewed this way, you might want to make a compromise. Get a 512BB for $140k, so you get the flat-12 carburetor sensation and the gorgeous Boxer styling, then get an F355 spider on the side for the V8 experience with wind in your hair and a bit more reliability. Or a 308GTS.

Alternatively, how about you buy a 365 in Europe, leave it there, and fly to Italy twice a year to join us on an epic drive? For $80k you can have quite a couple of holidays and I've got space in my garage. :D

More seriously, I'd be happy to let you experience my 365 so you can find out what these are about, but you'll have to wait until spring is upon us, I'm afraid, as the weather is miserable now.


Onno



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Sorry Alex, I was not aware you are in the States. Because of DOT/EPA, this is a very different market than in Europe. You should be able to secure a good LHD 365 for $150k in Europe (EUR120k), but in the States they are still trading close to $200k as you say, IF you can find one. To compare: I drove a 365, 512BB and BBi in the UK on one day (as you will have read), and the 365 was the cheapest! And it is a good car. Just shows you how different markets can be.

I don't think going through the conversion is an option these days, so importing from Europe is out, otherwise that would have been a good option.

So - if we just look at the States... To say that 365's are worth the difference is a personal statement. I think, in terms of collectability, yes. But $80k is a free 550 Maranello nowadays, and that's a whole lot of difference! Viewed this way, you might want to make a compromise. Get a 512BB for $140k, so you get the flat-12 carburetor sensation and the gorgeous Boxer styling, then get an F355 spider on the side for the V8 experience with wind in your hair and a bit more reliability. Or a 308GTS.

Alternatively, how about you buy a 365 in Europe, leave it there, and fly to Italy twice a year to join us on an epic drive? For $80k you can have quite a couple of holidays and I've got space in my garage. :D

More seriously, I'd be happy to let you experience my 365 so you can find out what these are about, but you'll have to wait until spring is upon us, I'm afraid, as the weather is miserable now.


Onno
Actually DOT/EPA is not really an issue on Boxers anymore. Once a car is 25 years old, it is exempt from the regulations. With the recent rise in the $, European BBs are a bit more affordable now. Import duty on a 25 year old car is only 2.5%.
 

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Well it seems that several have sold very recently - quite odd.

But a good starting point is Anamera. www.anamera.com

The two left-hand drives on there have been for sale for more than a year. Both seem very nice cars. I've been to Paris to see the red/black one but was frustrated by a very amateurish broker and eventually left without seeing the car. The seller wanted 130k EUR (around $150k) - that was in August. There is some history on this car in the FL 365BB registry, as there is on the yellow one. That car, I suspect will be a little more expensive, but since it's been sale for so long, I'd offer 125k, max. That equates to US$157k.

But 20th December there are two Boxers for sale at the Bonhams auction in Gstaad as well. http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/publ...Continent=EUR&screen=Catalogue&iSaleNo=16671#

Lower estimates are, I think, too high and I would be surprised if they sell for this much. Even so, the low estimate for the red car is US$150k, which for a US car would be very cheap. It might be worth registering as a buyer and contacting the seller if there is no sale. Neither of the two Boxers in the London sale today sold.

212Export knows, I think, at least 1 of the cars personally. Send him a PM if you're interested.


Onno



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Have not double-checked with Victor but it's been taken off the website.

This is the one I meant. Car was in Switzerland, not Belgium, otherwise I would have gone to look at it in August. Looked like it need some cosmetic work.


Onno

P.S. I just noticed this car has the same Voxson 8-track as my own Boxer! Nice. I have no confirmation this is the original equipment but since this one has the same one, and this is also a '74 Boxer, that hardly seems a coincidence.



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Two quotes I lifted from another forum - hope nobody will shoot me for it, I just thought it was very apt to this thread.

Big difference between the London RH drive boxers in average condition and the Gstaad LH drive restored boxers. Gstaad seems to be looking to the US for the cavalry.
Keep in mind that bringing one of these into the US will cost 2.5% duty 1% bond plus shipping, plus shipping insurance which isn't free either. The total cost will touch 20K on a 180K car easily.


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