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Can someone provide me with a timeline of the 360 improvements over the years. I'm looking to buy one but I can't really differentiate the difference over the years. Hopefully someone can give me some insight before I make the wrong decision.

Thanks!
 

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azpinator said:
Why?

Gearbox?
It has most of the quirks worked out of the F1 system and has the upgraded software. My recommendation is the 99 however, due to emission requirements in 2000 the 99 is the quickest of them all. That's just me though!
 

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Boxer- There were software (ECU/TCU) upgrades to the 360 at Assembly Number 47115 and AN 47380:

Ferrari Parts, Ferrari Accessories, and Ferrari Performance Products - Ricambi America, Inc.

Many owners have upgraded to the Challenge Stradale ECU/TCU, part number 196986.
In my opinion the CH tcu provides unacceptable performance/operation in non CS cars. Also in my opinion those that feel otherwise have never experienced a properly operating F1 system and have no informed basis to form an opinion.

The hardware/software are just not compatible.
 

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Brian- First I have heard that. So you think the best thing for an upgrade is the later 360 ECU, or stick with the original one?

What exactly do you do to an F1 system to make it operate properly other than routine maintenance? My techs have a Tutella CS only pump for emptying about half the F1 fluid annually, but that and upgrading the F1 pump relay is about all I have heard to do. My system is obviously different from a 360's, but many parts are common. Mine works like a champ, but then it is not as old as most 360s.
 

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Brian- First I have heard that. So you think the best thing for an upgrade is the later 360 ECU, or stick with the original one?

What exactly do you do to an F1 system to make it operate properly other than routine maintenance? My techs have a Tutella CS only pump for emptying about half the F1 fluid annually, but that and upgrading the F1 pump relay is about all I have heard to do. My system is obviously different from a 360's, but many parts are common. Mine works like a champ, but then it is not as old as most 360s.


That is all you really need to do on your car. There is an updated clutch position sensor for the 575 but I believe it was primarily to get the connector to where it was less prone to exposure to the elements. Probably not important to those of us not driving on salted roads.


Actually the software version I liked best on the 360 was the one they came out with in 2001. It was the first onewith adjustable PIS. There were one or two after that and I thought they were slight steps backward.

One of my clients has an external box on his from an after market company with a sport/standard switch. Both modes are an improvement from stock. There are also companies reprogramming them that are doing some good work. I suspect they are just copying CS or 430 clutch operation data.

The CS hardware is somewhat different so the CS tcu is not seeing the imputs it expects and is just not a good match to the Modena. It works fine full throttle but does nothing else correctly.
 

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Brian- Thanks, that would be the one introduced at Assembly Number 47115, if the parts catalog is correct. The ability to manually set PIS is a big deal, from what I have read. Is the auto-adjust just inaccurate, or have you found certain cars react well to a different setting?

I know who you are talking about on the external F1 add-on, and he seems very happy with the results.

It surprises me that there were no hardware changes on the 360 F1 system during production from 1998 to early 2005. Especially compared to the 575M. The 575M had three separate F1 hydraulic systems during production, none of which have caused many problems.

You are correct, the updated F1 position sensor was right at the end of 575M production and the big improvement was more waterproof connectors. They actually had a campaign and changed them (same part) for free on early 612s, as you know.
 

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Brian- Thanks, that would be the one introduced at Assembly Number 47115, if the parts catalog is correct. The ability to manually set PIS is a big deal, from what I have read. Is the auto-adjust just inaccurate, or have you found certain cars react well to a different setting?

I know who you are talking about on the external F1 add-on, and he seems very happy with the results.

It surprises me that there were no hardware changes on the 360 F1 system during production from 1998 to early 2005. Especially compared to the 575M. The 575M had three separate F1 hydraulic systems during production, none of which have caused many problems.

You are correct, the updated F1 position sensor was right at the end of 575M production and the big improvement was more waterproof connectors. They actually had a campaign and changed them (same part) for free on early 612s, as you know.


There were 2 hardware changes to the 360 done early on. Sensor mount and length of stroke pins on the TO bearing.


Most of the 360 clutch operational issues relate to people that just do not understand how they work and setting them up wrong on the computer. That includes most dealers. Many independant shops have no ability to do it and just blow that off. It results in a very short lived clutch. Also some of the information on replacing those clutches that erroneously came out of Ferrari is in the public domain is just flat out wrong.

This is all compounded by so much disinformation out there that people have very low expectations of clutch operation and clutch life in the 360 that people settle for it. Mechanics and owners alike.
 

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Brian- I did not catch those two changes. I only looked at the hydraulic system and not the clutch and peripherals. Learn something new every day.

Tricks of the trade on F1 maintenance must be very hard won. I have no intention of wearing out the clutch on my F1 system, but keep trying to learn more in case the day ever comes. Almost picked up the latest clutch position sensor for a very cheap price from our wholesaler buddies, but they sold both of them to Continental. Deal was cut, but they were already gone.

Next service we are going to use your trick for determining how much clutch lining I have remaining. Too bad it does not work on the V8s.
 

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Tricks of the trade on F1 maintenance must be very hard won. I have no intention of wearing out the clutch on my F1 system, but keep trying to learn more in case the day ever comes.


I was never told anything anyone else was not. The trick is knowing who to listen to.

Ferrari and most of it's employees have an institutional inability to say "I don't know". The corporate and individual egos will not allow it. The consequence of that is if they don't have the information you need they will make someting up. The whole trick to finding out what you needed to know was to develop relationships with the right people and just nod your head with the wrong ones.

The bad part is it is almost invariably the wrong ones who speak loudest and most often.
 

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A good story about the length of stroke pins. About 2 years ago no one I usually buy from had them in stock. I got them out of one of the big, very well known dealers on the East Coast. They sent me the old short ones. The ones that are no longer supposed to be used. I called and asked why they sent me those and the parts department had no idea there was an update on them effective several years before and they were still using them.

Wonder why so many of these cars don't work correctly? So few even try.
 

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Brian- Those kinds of stories are scarey, especially at FNA labor rates.

Thanks for all the help over the years.
 
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