NW Ferrari Concours - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 5 Old 05-29-2019, 06:48 AM Thread Starter
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NW Ferrari Concours

Originally Posted by 330gt
Originally Posted by donv
Can you show without being judged?

I had my 365GT judged last year at the concours in Seattle, and it was funny. I think my overall score was about right, maybe even a bit generous, but some of the deductions I got were completely wrong, and they missed some of the obvious things which were actually wrong.

I felt like they were looking for deductions so I would come in behind the local guy...

Other than that, it was fun being up there.
We felt the same way, lots of the judging was uninformed and based on other things than originality such as shiny paint. If you look at the event request for judges, image below, the instructions state "You do not need to be an expert to judge" meaning their judges were not experts in any model.
Nothing could be more convincing of this than when that blue Dino 03656 won. It had shiny new paint but many interior pieces were missing. No door cards, no door panels, no door leather, no pockets and also missing carpet and console bits. Apparently the restoration wasn't finished and that was why it had to be flat bedded into place on the field. The judges own score card shows that the Interior is the highest point awarding item, yet somehow it won?

There were two other Dinos with nice patina and originality there but neither owner was a local, Seattle guy.
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Last edited by USADino; 05-29-2019 at 07:04 AM.
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post #2 of 5 Old 06-06-2019, 09:54 AM
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Mercer Island, WA
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About NWRFCA Concours Judging

Hi Don,

This is Will Diefenbach, Chief Judge for the NWRFCA Concours since 2016. First, thank you for bringing out your 365 last year. It's a lovely car and we were very happy to have it on the field. There was some very stiff competition in your class as you know. We'd love to see your car again and hope that you will enter it this year.

I'd like to share some info about the judging here. We take great pride in our Concours and the judges and I take the responsibility of fair judging very seriously.
- We judge cars based on the standards and forms established by International Advisory Council for Preservation of the Ferrari Automobile (IAC/PFA). The forms and deductions are very prescriptive.

- Our teams of 3 judges are directed to evaluate each car absolutely objectively, without regard to who owns them, where they are from or how miles they have covered.

- The teams are instructed to apply the exact same standards to each car in class. If, for example, one particular piece is deemed to warrant a deduction on the last car judged and it wasn't evaluated on the first, it can't be taken without reevaluating the other cars.
- The judges are also instructed to be generous with minor flaws that show the car is driven - minor rock chips, some road dirt, minor interior wear, etc.

- We recognize that this is not Pebble Beach (though we have some judges with experience judging there) nor is it the National FCA meet. We are a little more lenient.

- There is a time limit on judging each car and so sometimes things will be missed. The most important thing is car to car consistency within a class and I feel that our judges are very good at that.
I am happy to answer any specific questions that you have about the judging. I saw that your car did very well last year but that the others in class did a bit better. I do hope that you'll join us this year, whether judged or for display. Your car is certainly a contender for a trophy.

Best regards,
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post #3 of 5 Old 06-06-2019, 10:17 AM
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Mercer Island, WA
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Regarding the Dino Judging

Hello Scott McClure,
I don't recall seeing you at the Concours last year (or since 2015) and am a bit surprised by your comments. Let me address them point by point.

1. Judging standards - please see my previous reply
2. Request for judges - The Concours requires a team of 33 judges to cover 11 classes. Last year 100% of the judges had prior judging experience. With a change in location for 2019 some of my experienced judges are not available so I am recruiting more. As in the past, new judges are paired with more experienced judges. Always. And the materials and guidance I provide make it pretty easy to get a new judge up to speed and capable of participating as an objective team member.
3. This is not the National Meet and we do not have access to model-specific experts across all classes. However we DID have a Dino expert on the team in 2016, 2017 and 2018.

3. The winning car deserved to win based on objective evaluation. The other two Dinos are lovely cars but they did not score as highly. It should be noted that even the class-winning car did not achieve Platinum status because of points deductions related to its restoration.

Scott, you would be welcomed at any of our events if you decide to attend. But please refrain from disparaging comments about events that you did not attend. Such behavior does not seem to be in the spirit of Ferrari Life.

- Will
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post #4 of 5 Old 08-08-2019, 12:39 PM
Join Date: Aug 2019
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I think a better explanation is that the NW has a First in Class judging order based on those that attend and ranked first to third
while Nationals, Forest Grove, and Monterey judge based on an absolute grading of Platinum which there may be none in any class.
Yes, the Blue Dino had missing interior parts but it was a class judged event.
Now we see it for sale at Gooding which the ad says was in restoration for years and only two Concours judging; one being this local FCA, so I could see how you would want your fellow Seattle owner to win provenance. Interesting that Dino 03656 is not Red Book Classiche certified

I didn't see you at Forest Grove and none of the judges I spoke with knew your name. If you really want the FCA event to excel you need to talk with FG judges.
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post #5 of 5 Old 08-15-2019, 10:06 AM
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Mercer Island, WA
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Hi Don,
I think that you might have missed my responses above about the judging methodology. Yes, Forest Grove is a lovely, multi-marque event with a number of highly experienced judges evaluating spectacular cars across 52 classes, one of which is for Ferraris. It is not a Ferrari Club of America concours. Not sure who you talked to at FG about me but the chief judge for FG was one of the judges on my team at the NWRFCA concours from 2015-2018.

The Dino that was called out by Scott M (who did not attend the 2015-2019 events, BTW) participated at the specific request of the Concours committee with the understanding that it was not fully complete and against the owner's initial desire. That said, it was objectively judged by the IAC/PFA standards (we judge cars and not people's addresses) and it scored higher than the other Dinos. It earned its award even though it was missing some bits. If you'd like to see how scoring is handled, please see ferrariclubofamerica.org. Regarding your comment on Classiche, that program will certify the engine and transmission but not necessarily many of the other details and a well-documented Ferrari does not need that validation.
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