Cardinals 2013 Season - Page 85 - Ferrari Life
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post #1681 of 1696 Old 10-31-2013, 04:18 AM
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Doug, my sincere condolences.
It's still quite an accomplishment to get this far in the standings.

Look at the bright side.

The Cards ARE STILL BETTER THAN THE YANKEES!
(the one and only team I truly dislike)
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post #1682 of 1696 Old 10-31-2013, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by BluNart View Post
Won't surprise me to see the Cards again in the Series next year. Coaching was a bit stubborn but got you here. Very fitting for a city that's still healing and learning from the marathon.

Dougie, sorry man no lobster this time - we'll be sure to fill the propane readying for the steaks and ribs!! Great Bruins comfort food..
Congratulations!!

Our guys did wonderful and I am proud to be a Cardinals fan!

Hope you had a great time - the better team won and the city of Boston deserved it!

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post #1683 of 1696 Old 10-31-2013, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by 360 Modena View Post
Doug, my sincere condolences.
It's still quite an accomplishment to get this far in the standings.

Look at the bright side.

The Cards ARE STILL BETTER THAN THE YANKEES!
(the one and only team I truly dislike)
Thanks!

You are correct - it was a great run.

Keep in mind no one got hurt we hosted a World Series so it's really hard to imagine a better ending to the season.

Boston shut the most powerful offense in baseball down and for that I tip my hat.

I see no dark side
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post #1684 of 1696 Old 10-31-2013, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Scuderia STL View Post
It was a great season. But I don't know if I can hold off on criticizing MM until April. I have to wonder:

- Why this team can't make adjustments when things go wrong? Sure, Matheny mixed up the lineup throughout the series. But little if anything about their approach at the plate changed, and that's what killed them in this series.

- How long do Dewitt, Mozeliak, etc. give Matheny to complete his on-the-job training? This game reminded me a lot of Game 7 in the 2012 NLCS. Matheny looked like a deer in the headlights and the team looked flat. There were many other circumstances to take into account, but it was deja vu all over again as Yogi Berra might say.

All I know is that this team is built to last. We've had 20+ seasons of winning baseball and so many postseason appearances during that stretch. We've also witnessed the development of the finest farm system in the majors and some of the most promising prospects in baseball. I just hope the Cardinals won't squander all of that potential.
They looked flat? How did the Sox look before the big O hit a homer to change the whole series?

You do realize there are other teams in MLB right?

Did you ever think MM did more than Dewitt Mozeliak etc ever expected?

Baseball isn't about the scoreboard after the last out - it's a form of entertainment and if you truly believe or feel shorted by MM I suggest finding another team and see how that works for you,
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post #1685 of 1696 Old 10-31-2013, 06:50 AM Thread Starter
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Awesome season for both teams. Sox were a powerhouse to contend with, and everyone in baseball knew it by mid-July.

For the Cardinals, I think they had a great season --- I know I enjoyed watching all 150+ games (except for that horrible road trip ATL-PIT-CIN) and certainly felt like this was a team which performed well on the field and was very deserving of the success they achieved.

Would I have picked the 2013 Cards to win the NLCS? Heck no. Am I overjoyed they did? You bet! Going to game 6 against Boston is nothing to be unhappy about. Sure, a ring on the finger would be better.

My only gripe with MM was some of the odd pitching choices throughout the season. I've never managed a major league baseball team (raise your hand, if you have), so I can only assume he has other information or objectives than me sitting in North Carolina with a huge tumbler of Tanquary.

For the most part, he was able to build camaraderie among grizzled old veterans and fresh-off-the-farm youngsters. I credit MM for a team that WON together and LOST together. If there were egos involved somewhere in the Cardinal clubhouse, it certainly didn't show to the fans. That's a tough thing to manage, and I give him credit for that.

I'm a fan. That's all. Always have been. Always will be.


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post #1686 of 1696 Old 10-31-2013, 07:41 AM
 
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They looked flat? How did the Sox look before the big O hit a homer to change the whole series?

You do realize there are other teams in MLB right?

Did you ever think MM did more than Dewitt Mozeliak etc ever expected?

Baseball isn't about the scoreboard after the last out - it's a form of entertainment and if you truly believe or feel shorted by MM I suggest finding another team and see how that works for you,
Take it easy...I'm a lifelong fan and I stick by the Cardinals, win or lose. I'm still proud of what the team accomplished, and I realize it's a privilege to be a fan of a team that plays baseball in October more often than not. I suppose we're all a bit spoiled by that reality at one time or another.

I question some of the pitching choices, and I'm disappointed in the lack of adjustments made at the plate for a team that prided itself on disciplined hitting throughout the season. So all I hope is that ownership and management look at those shortcomings to arrive at conclusions about 2014, and we all know that they will do their best because that's what the Cardinals do: they're always competitive.

A good night's sleep and a brand new day have given me some perspective. Save for the aforementioned ATL-PIT-CIN road trip, I completely agree that they played 150 solid games of baseball. I struggle to think of any team in baseball that accomplished so much with players (and yes, a manager) with relatively little experience in the majors. And credit for that goes back to our deep farm system that is the envy of every team in Major League Baseball.

At least it was a better showing than 2004...and much of that team went on to win the World Series just two years later. And this time there was no doubt that the two best teams in baseball were there- Boston simply capitalized on opportunities when the Cardinals did not. So today, I feel like the Cardinals must feel, down but not out. They still hung in there with a tough opponent, and we all have every reason to believe there will be another Red October (maybe in St. Louis and in Boston again...who wouldn't love a rematch?)
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post #1687 of 1696 Old 10-31-2013, 07:50 AM
 
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My only gripe with MM was some of the odd pitching choices throughout the season. I've never managed a major league baseball team (raise your hand, if you have), so I can only assume he has other information or objectives than me sitting in North Carolina with a huge tumbler of Tanquary.

For the most part, he was able to build camaraderie among grizzled old veterans and fresh-off-the-farm youngsters. I credit MM for a team that WON together and LOST together. If there were egos involved somewhere in the Cardinal clubhouse, it certainly didn't show to the fans. That's a tough thing to manage, and I give him credit for that.
I think this is key...MM is a great manager of people, but not (yet) a great manager of strategies.

hopefully the offseason will give him some time to analyze some of the big mistakes, particularly int he playoffs, made in bullpen usage and lineup/pinch hitter management.

let's not forget he's in his second year as an MLB manager. we got spoiled with LaRussa's decades of experience.

I also agree with the statement about the '04 team that stuck around until '06...maybe sometimes you have to lose one to win one.

Hopefully we'll get Beltran his ring

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Chas, you sir, are a genius.
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post #1688 of 1696 Old 10-31-2013, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Scuderia STL View Post
Take it easy...I'm a lifelong fan and I stick by the Cardinals, win or lose. I'm still proud of what the team accomplished, and I realize it's a privilege to be a fan of a team that plays baseball in October more often than not. I suppose we're all a bit spoiled by that reality at one time or another.

I question some of the pitching choices, and I'm disappointed in the lack of adjustments made at the plate for a team that prided itself on disciplined hitting throughout the season. So all I hope is that ownership and management look at those shortcomings to arrive at conclusions about 2014, and we all know that they will do their best because that's what the Cardinals do: they're always competitive.

A good night's sleep and a brand new day have given me some perspective. Save for the aforementioned ATL-PIT-CIN road trip, I completely agree that they played 150 solid games of baseball. I struggle to think of any team in baseball that accomplished so much with players (and yes, a manager) with relatively little experience in the majors. And credit for that goes back to our deep farm system that is the envy of every team in Major League Baseball.

At least it was a better showing than 2004...and much of that team went on to win the World Series just two years later. And this time there was no doubt that the two best teams in baseball were there- Boston simply capitalized on opportunities when the Cardinals did not. So today, I feel like the Cardinals must feel, down but not out. They still hung in there with a tough opponent, and we all have every reason to believe there will be another Red October (maybe in St. Louis and in Boston again...who wouldn't love a rematch?)
Fair enough ... but I doubt the Cardinals feel down - we need to appreciate their efforts. Trust me they didn't want to lose the series nor did MM.

We could go over the pitching choices but players have to execute - we pulled a starter and looked what happened. last night they left their starter in what could have been a disaster ... would have been nice though

If we don't score pitching means nothing - no one ever won a game without touching home plate. They simply did it more than we did IMO pitching was not which I thought it would be our problem.

If we go back into the thread the home field advantage bothered me more than anything - if there is blame it's the ridiculous All Star game that determines who has the advantage the series.

****In 20 World Series before the rule went into effect the teams with home field advantage went 17-3 ****

Turn that around and it's a completely different WS and that's what stuck out for me early on as that green giant is very hard to field and bat against it's literally like having an extra guy on the field.

Let's agreee to disagree as I think MM is the best thing the Cardinals have going for them short term and long term there isn't a team out there that wouldn't take him and his staff is nothing to brag about ... I just think he did a lot more than anyone expected.

Congrats to Boston!
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post #1689 of 1696 Old 10-31-2013, 09:15 AM
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I think this is key...MM is a great manager of people, but not (yet) a great manager of strategies.

hopefully the offseason will give him some time to analyze some of the big mistakes, particularly int he playoffs, made in bullpen usage and lineup/pinch hitter management.

let's not forget he's in his second year as an MLB manager. we got spoiled with LaRussa's decades of experience.

I also agree with the statement about the '04 team that stuck around until '06...maybe sometimes you have to lose one to win one.

Hopefully we'll get Beltran his ring
MM had no chance - forget everything for a minute and look at the production from the bottom half of the order. If they didn't strand as you mentioned players all series long we would have won easily.

The bats hung on the shoulders more than I have ever seen - actually I was shocked to see it. Mabry if anyone got out coached and MM would never utter a word or shed any blame. IMO the guy is the best in baseball hands down there isnt a coach I would rather have.

Agree - we owe Beltran a ring 1000%
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post #1690 of 1696 Old 10-31-2013, 09:53 AM
 
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Let's agreee to disagree as I think MM is the best thing the Cardinals have going for them short term and long term there isn't a team out there that wouldn't take him and his staff is nothing to brag about ... I just think he did a lot more than anyone expected.
I agree to disagree as well. I do have to say that I agree with Chas' point- I think he's a better manager of people than of strategies. But the latter skill comes with more experience and time, and the former cannot be bought or faked. You have to have buy-in to be successful- and I truly believe he has that.

I don't want to dwell on who's to blame, but I agree about Mabry, and I'm just shocked at how many good pitches went by and how many bad pitches the Cardinals swung at and missed. But that's the good thing about Matheny on which we'll agree- he'll examine what went wrong with Mabry and the hitting without throwing him or the players that didn't do as well as expected under the bus. So that's an example of good leadership in my opinion.

I totally agree about the absurdity of the ASG determining the team that has home field advantage in the WS. Selig is full of dumb ideas and this happens to be one of the worst. I think of the Green Monster as an interfering fan, only the umpires cannot call interference on it. Start this series off in St. Louis and I think the Cardinals start off on a better note, although I suppose that's a moot point now.

Congratulations to Boston on a well-deserved victory. The two best teams in baseball got together and the Red Sox truly earned the right to be champions after this series!
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post #1691 of 1696 Old 10-31-2013, 10:25 AM
 
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MM had no chance - forget everything for a minute and look at the production from the bottom half of the order. If they didn't strand as you mentioned players all series long we would have won easily.

The bats hung on the shoulders more than I have ever seen - actually I was shocked to see it. Mabry if anyone got out coached and MM would never utter a word or shed any blame. IMO the guy is the best in baseball hands down there isnt a coach I would rather have.

Agree - we owe Beltran a ring 1000%
he could have switched up the lineup, put some other guys in the game, etc to try to get the bats swinging. I don't really feel like he did that, just moved some guys around depending on RHP vs LHP starters.

I do think this has been a phenomenal performance from MM, NLCS and WS in his first two years, I'm assuming at this point that's not a fluke and we should be well suited with him for a few years

anyone know Beltran's contract status? IIRC he's a free agent.

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Chas, you sir, are a genius.
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post #1692 of 1696 Old 10-31-2013, 12:41 PM
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he could have switched up the lineup, put some other guys in the game, etc to try to get the bats swinging. I don't really feel like he did that, just moved some guys around depending on RHP vs LHP starters.

I do think this has been a phenomenal performance from MM, NLCS and WS in his first two years, I'm assuming at this point that's not a fluke and we should be well suited with him for a few years

anyone know Beltran's contract status? IIRC he's a free agent.
Craig was a gift - problem with that is fielding would have been sacrificed and the trade off would have been tough to justify. Look what Big City did and he was a top hitter all year - give a lot of credit to the Boston pitchers.

Or recall the rookie base runner - who gets picked off when his run meant nothing to end the game.

There is a lot of pressure and new guys crack under it - Wacha was excluded but even he cracked in Boston. I am a fan of dance with your date that took you.

MM went all season with band aids - did a remarkable job we didn't have any experienced guys left that were good to go in a WS situation which is why he went with Lynn - there simply wasn't much left in the fridge and the freezer didn't help which was the big kill switch.
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post #1693 of 1696 Old 10-31-2013, 03:45 PM
 
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Okay, so does anyone know exactly what happened to Shelby Miller and why he wasn't used at all in the postseason? I remember reading something about his pitch count getting high as the season progressed, but I thought it was odd that he was rarely even mentioned.

Lynn actually didn't do all that bad against Boston and LA. By the time he came into Game 7, the damage was already done. He has good stuff, he just has to learn how to work through jams and not implode in the process. It wasn't like there were a lot of alternatives with guys like Miller, Mujica, and Westbrook out of the picture.

IIRC, Beltran is a free agent. I believe Freese is as well; I wonder what his future holds.
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post #1694 of 1696 Old 10-31-2013, 03:49 PM
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Okay, so does anyone know exactly what happened to Shelby Miller and why he wasn't used at all in the postseason? I remember reading something about his pitch count getting high as the season progressed, but I thought it was odd that he was rarely even mentioned.

Lynn actually didn't do all that bad against Boston and LA. By the time he came into Game 7, the damage was already done. He has good stuff, he just has to learn how to work through jams and not implode in the process. It wasn't like there were a lot of alternatives with guys like Miller, Mujica, and Westbrook out of the picture.

IIRC, Beltran is a free agent. I believe Freese is as well; I wonder what his future holds.
Join the 2014 thread.

Shelby Miller was nowhere to be found - rumor was his arm was out of sorts but that was never confirmed or denied.
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post #1695 of 1696 Old 11-06-2013, 08:40 AM Thread Starter
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Final post of the 2013 thread?

Nice move by Boston! But, be ready for OUR advertisement in your paper next year.


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post #1696 of 1696 Old 11-13-2013, 05:47 PM
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Congratulations!!

Our guys did wonderful and I am proud to be a Cardinals fan!

Hope you had a great time - the better team won and the city of Boston deserved it!

Send me a pm with address so I can ring your dinner bell
Wow Doug, my wife & I are ready for the 2014 season betting to begin. While the bet was won fairly your generosity has been thoroughly enjoyed so far. Starting with fine red wine, scrumptious dry rub ribs, pumpkin pie (frozen for Thanksgiving with the larger family), whipped cream, and bacon wrapped filet. We will never have filet again without thick cut bacon, wow! Anyone that has ordered steaks on-line (Omaha in our case) should consider the local St Louis smokehouse, we certainly will.

Until 2014 . . .

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