New Memeber - 360 Spider - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 17 Old 11-17-2011, 03:46 PM Thread Starter
 
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New Memeber - 360 Spider

Hello All
Just joined as Im seeking advice/guidance/general comment on a potential purchase of 2004 360 Spider 360.

a) F1 or Manual transmission - seems F1 is more popular but has some ECU issues.
b) Future values - static, climbing or falling? Car I'm looking at is very low mileage and would be stored.


Many thanks for any input to the decision.
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post #2 of 17 Old 11-17-2011, 04:02 PM
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Welcome to Ferrari Life

For question #1, depends on your tastes. I would personally go with manual.

For question #2, prices will likely drop a few more % points but nothing major making the 360 a great value.

Be sure to check the V8 section to see some of the common issues, and as always, I would recommend a PPI. There are a fair number of UK members here if that is where you are that can recommend a mechanic.
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post #3 of 17 Old 11-17-2011, 04:14 PM
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Brit,

Welcome to the forum, you've come to the right place. Unlike the other site(s), most of us here are actual owners.

I recommend you start with the Buyer's Guide available here. It will answer most of your questions.

I don't know if the F1 is more popular or not, but 80% of them came that way. Do a search here and you'll find plenty of posts that discuss the pros and cons. Driving style seems to have the most effect. Have not heard that the ECU is problematic, but others will certainly chime in.

As to value, the 360 is nothing but a used car, albeit a very expensive one. Because of the numbers made, it is unlikely it will ever be collectible. As such, they will depreciate at an increasingly slower rate for the next several years. Look at the 355 as a pretty good model for depreciation.

As to my own advice, I can tell you: BUY ONE !!! You’ll wonder how you went this long without one.

It the most exciting car I’ve ever driven. In my second year of ownership, it still gives me goose bumps just looking at it.

Killer

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post #4 of 17 Old 11-17-2011, 04:48 PM
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Welcome to FLife

2004 360 - Go For It

You are getting a lot of car for the money - need details and PPI to determine value.

The 360 probably will have the lowest amount of depreciation out the as far as Ferrari's go.

Plenty of guys here to help you maintain the car - but keep in mind it was a 200k can and regardless of todays value - it will require a pocket full of 100's from time to time.

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post #5 of 17 Old 11-17-2011, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
 
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Guys - Many thanks. Confirming my initial thoughts. The car I have in mind is late 2004, manual, 10,000 miles, optioned with crema sports seats, Challenge rear grille, 6 CD, crema roll hoops + others. Value ideas? Asking GBP59,000
As im based overseas, I plan to store for periodic use during UK visits. Possibly Elite or Tigastor - any experiences?
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post #6 of 17 Old 11-17-2011, 05:14 PM
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BG- Welcome. Not too familiar with values in the UK, but can state the F1 ECU has not been a problem. Most posts on the F1 ECU have been around the improvements made in later cars and how to update the earlier cars.

No issue with the three pedal versions, just remember they all have the same transmission and clutch, only the shift mechanisms and throw-out bearings were different.

You will love the 360, but as stated earlier, they will depreciate to some bottom level still not yet reached.

Taz
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post #7 of 17 Old 11-17-2011, 06:43 PM Thread Starter
 
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Taz - Noted re ECU. What are the thoughts on depreciation for F360? At what point have you seen previous models start to flatten out?
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post #8 of 17 Old 11-17-2011, 08:21 PM
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BG- Like David said above, look at the F355, and probably the 348 and 328 as well, for examples of cars that have pretty much bottomed. They built something like 17,000 360s, so it is probably 5-10 years before they flatten out.

As was mentioned above, they are just expensive used cars right now, like my 575M, but they are way more fun than anything else you can buy for the money. If you buy a 360 Spider for 60K pounds and sell it for 45K pounds three or four years from now, you will have lost a whole lot less money than if you had bought an equivalent price new Mercedes or BMW. Pay to play for sure, and worth the money. Nothing else feels like a Ferrari, new or used.

An 04 360 has all the updates the factory made during production, so you get the advantage of 5 years of factory and owner OT&E on the car.

Taz
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post #9 of 17 Old 11-17-2011, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BritGUY View Post
At what point have you seen previous models start to flatten out?
The 3x8s, 348, and 355 (the 360 predecessor) are all fully depreciated now. I'd say the 360s are rounding the corner and estimate they will settle somewhere near 40% of their original cost. As a comp, a top-notch 355 may bring $60K or so in the US, so that will probably establish a price floor for the 360 at least in the near to mid term. The F360s (I assume you mean coupe) are available in the $75k range, so they’re even closer to full depreciation.

From your description, £60K is about right for that Spider in the US.

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post #10 of 17 Old 11-17-2011, 08:57 PM
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Geez Taz, I've got to learn to type faster....

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post #11 of 17 Old 11-17-2011, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
 
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Killer 58 - Many thanks. Assuming a UK purchase price of say GBP125,000 at Nov 2004 and in specification as indicated, then 40% suggests GBP50,000 - does this indicate I have 3-4 years depreciation still built into the GBP60,000 purchase price?
If so I intend to buy and then immediatley store (as Im based outside UK). Whilst in storage (say 3-5years) I would expect to continue to see depreciation but given I will add negligable mileage would it be reasonable to assume some appreciation for the fact that mileage will not increase and over that time overall supply of models will decrease? If so perhaps net effect would be to see value approach purchase price at point I remove from storage? Fair or not?
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post #12 of 17 Old 11-17-2011, 10:41 PM
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Welcome to F Life BritGuy. I've owned my 360 Modena for nearly 5 years now and still love it. It's a definite keeper. I'd highly recommend one. I'd expect that a £59k 2004 model will continue to depreciate somewhat, but at a reasonably slow pace for the next few years. Hard to know where it will eventually level out but I wouldn't be surprised if the final figure is c. £20k below your purchase price. That said if you plan to keep it forever, then all of this is irrelevant.

In any case good luck with you search and keep us informed!

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post #13 of 17 Old 11-17-2011, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BritGUY View Post
Hello All
Just joined as Im seeking advice/guidance/general comment on a potential purchase of 2004 360 Spider 360.

a) F1 or Manual transmission - seems F1 is more popular but has some ECU issues.
b) Future values - static, climbing or falling? Car I'm looking at is very low mileage and would be stored.


Many thanks for any input to the decision.
Welcome to FLife.

Where in the UK are you based?

Suggest you take a look at the 360 Buyers Guide:

Ferrari Buyer's Guides - Ferrari Life
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post #14 of 17 Old 11-18-2011, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BritGUY View Post
Killer 58 - Many thanks. Assuming a UK purchase price of say GBP125,000 at Nov 2004 and in specification as indicated, then 40% suggests GBP50,000 - does this indicate I have 3-4 years depreciation still built into the GBP60,000 purchase price?
If so I intend to buy and then immediatley store (as Im based outside UK). Whilst in storage (say 3-5years) I would expect to continue to see depreciation but given I will add negligable mileage would it be reasonable to assume some appreciation for the fact that mileage will not increase and over that time overall supply of models will decrease? If so perhaps net effect would be to see value approach purchase price at point I remove from storage? Fair or not?
Brit,

Our price estimates are simply that; estimates. There is no way to predict the F-car market with the accuracy you're looking for. Currently, eBay lists 60-70 cars for sale on any given day. I expect this will increase slightly in the next few years. They won’t be rare, they’ll all have more miles, and most will need some degree of maintenance. Even a pristine, low-mileage example will be affected by that market condition.

I think Barry hit the nail on the head, you should expect to lose £20K in value during your ownership. Plus another £500 every year for tune-ups and £3K for a major every three. Driven or not. And as many experts here will confirm, these cars do NOT like to sit for long periods. They perform and remain happy the more you drive them.

It sounds like your need to retain value may be a major factor in affordability. If so, the 360, or any Ferrari for that matter, may not be the model for you. One of the most valuable pieces of advice I’ve seen on this forum was explanation that this is an expensive, pay-to-play club. That other site has many owners who thought they could buy one of these cars, drive it with minimal maintenance costs, and get most of their money back upon sale. The real owners here know better.

No matter how you slice it, these cars are an expensive luxury. You should begin your search with the assumption you will lose money on the car.

My apologies if this comes across as harsh, but I’d rather you had the ground truth and realistic expectations.

Killer

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post #15 of 17 Old 11-18-2011, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer58 View Post
Brit,

Our price estimates are simply that; estimates. There is no way to predict the F-car market with the accuracy you're looking for. Currently, eBay lists 60-70 cars for sale on any given day. I expect this will increase slightly in the next few years. They won’t be rare, they’ll all have more miles, and most will need some degree of maintenance. Even a pristine, low-mileage example will be affected by that market condition.

I think Barry hit the nail on the head, you should expect to lose £20K in value during your ownership. Plus another £500 every year for tune-ups and £3K for a major every three. Driven or not. And as many experts here will confirm, these cars do NOT like to sit for long periods. They perform and remain happy the more you drive them.

It sounds like your need to retain value may be a major factor in affordability. If so, the 360, or any Ferrari for that matter, may not be the model for you. One of the most valuable pieces of advice I’ve seen on this forum was explanation that this is an expensive, pay-to-play club. That other site has many owners who thought they could buy one of these cars, drive it with minimal maintenance costs, and get most of their money back upon sale. The real owners here know better.

No matter how you slice it, these cars are an expensive luxury. You should begin your search with the assumption you will lose money on the car.

My apologies if this comes across as harsh, but I’d rather you had the ground truth and realistic expectations.

Killer
Agree with everyone above. Will add that amount of depreciation will obviously depend on length of ownership. 360s are robust but most importantly buy well and you should sell well. Therefore when you have selected the right car a PPI is essential - there are certain items on a 360 that only a thorough PPI will show.

GBP59k sounds like a Ferrari dealer car? price should be negotiable to some extent and should have benefit of warranty.


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post #16 of 17 Old 11-18-2011, 07:19 PM Thread Starter
 
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Guys - Many thanks for the insights and certainly gives me cause to reconsider the plans.
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post #17 of 17 Old 11-18-2011, 11:23 PM
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Guys - Many thanks for the insights and certainly gives me cause to reconsider the plans.
Are you looking to buy privately or via a dealer?
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