Warm up regulator missing - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 16 Old 10-16-2011, 05:39 AM Thread Starter
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Warm up regulator missing

Hi guys,

I am working on my TR and I am confused about something.

As far as I can see, I do not have the warm-up regulators on my '87 TR. I checked the workshop and parts manual, but as far as they show, every TR has warm-up regulators.

On the first picture I have circeled the places where the regulators should be (as per my opinion).

Amongst other things, the warm-up regulators (WUR) are controlled by the air presure of the air intake manifold. Therefore there should be small hoses connected to the air intake manifolds and to the WUR's. On my car these hoses are cut off and closed with a screw (see picture 2 and 3 upper circles).

The WUR's should also be connected with 2 hoses to the trottle housing. On my car these hoses are also cut off and closed with a screw (pictures 2 and 3 lower circles).

The other remarkable thing on my car is that it has no catalytic converter, however it does have the 2 oxygen sensors in the muffler pipes. In other words, my TR has the original first type exhaust system with 2 oxygen sensors added.

This car has been imported in the past and it might be possible that it comes from Swiss where the emission regulations were different as in the rest of Europe at that time (as in the US). Maybe somebody imported it and removed some of this stuff, because it was not required any more?

Is there somebody who can help me with this puzzle?

(I have bought the car with a broken clutch and it has been standing still for 10 years, so I have not driven the car yet and therefore don't know wheter it runs well).

Also on some pictures of engine compartments on this forum, I saw that there are more TR's with no WUR's on the places as where they should be (e.g. the TR of Carguy). By these cars the small vacuum hoses that are connected to the front side of the intake manifolds (looking from the backside of the car) run to the right side of the engine compartment. Can anybody tell me where they are connected to?

So in summery I have the following questions:

1. Does every TR have WUR's?

2. If the WUR's are not as positioned as I mentioned above, then where should the small vacuumhoses from the inlet manifold be connected to?

I hope you guys can help me out over here.
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post #2 of 16 Old 10-16-2011, 02:54 PM
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It may be helpful to know which engine type you have. Look on the identification pad at the top-right-rear corner of the engine block. Very early TRs had the Bosch K-Jetronic system up to some time in 1986 which used Warm-Up Regulators. By 1987 the Bosch KE-Jetronic system was used which did not use Warm-Up Regulators...if my memory is right. It is possible that the removal of emissions equipment could account for some of those plugged hoses...
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post #3 of 16 Old 10-19-2011, 07:18 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Carguy,

That makes sense. Mine TR has the KE-Jetroic system, so the fact that is has no warm-up regulators is correct.

But can you maybe check with your own car where the small vacuum hoses are connected to...?
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post #4 of 16 Old 10-19-2011, 09:23 AM
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Another good question is where in the world are you?

Guide to the Galaxy: Don't Panic
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Current:
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post #5 of 16 Old 10-20-2011, 01:00 PM
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Brian Crall is an authority and mech too on TRs. His is very nice. Either PM him BRIAN or post to him... if he has the time he'll
succinctly give you all the info you need to know.

He is very busy but frequents here at times.

rik

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post #6 of 16 Old 10-20-2011, 04:12 PM
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The two ports at the rear of each upper intake plenum are usually hooked up to the evaporative fuel cannisters (emissions equipement). As for those other capped off hoses down below....I don't know. They appear to tap into the throttle bodies....is this right? Or do the hook up to some other component?
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post #7 of 16 Old 10-21-2011, 04:56 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carguy View Post
The two ports at the rear of each upper intake plenum are usually hooked up to the evaporative fuel cannisters (emissions equipement). As for those other capped off hoses down below....I don't know. They appear to tap into the throttle bodies....is this right? Or do the hook up to some other component?
Hi Carguy,

Thanks for this info. I am going to take a look whether there are some lose ends at the fuel canister system. I'll let you know what the situation is...
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post #8 of 16 Old 10-24-2011, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petervg1 View Post
Hi Carguy,

Thanks for this info. I am going to take a look whether there are some lose ends at the fuel canister system. I'll let you know what the situation is...


You asked via PM what those hoses connect to. If you tell me what the 8th digit in the VIN is I can look it up and tell you. The 8th digit is the market designation. There are so many versions of the TR, without that information we are all guessing and that is just pointless.
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post #9 of 16 Old 10-24-2011, 03:14 PM
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Those plugged hoses go to the vacuum bypass valve (#41 top right image) that is only used on cars with K-Jet fuel injection, not KE.

Seems your car has had some parts mixed and matched somewhere in its history since leaving Maranello. It would be illuminating to know where the mixing and matching begins and ends.
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post #10 of 16 Old 10-25-2011, 06:18 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Brian,

Thank you for your reply.

I am located in the Netherlands. As the speedometer is showing km's, I assume this car comes from another European country. Therefore I think there is nothing registered of this car in the VIN database, but I could be wring. The complete chassis no is ZFFAA17B000073083.

As far as I can see it's got the KE-Jetronic system on it and these vacuum hoses sould connect to the evaporative fuel cannisters (as carguy says). The only strange thing is that the parts manual is showing 2 charcoal carbon canisters (number 17) for every TR model, but mine TR only got one (which looks different).

I hope you can help me out.

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post #11 of 16 Old 10-25-2011, 06:35 AM Thread Starter
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By the way,

One other thing I didn't mention is that the exit hose of the one charcoal carbon canister now just exits in the open air.

In my opinion that is not the way as it should be, because this system is there to prevent that the fuel gasses come in the open air...
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post #12 of 16 Old 10-25-2011, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petervg1 View Post
Hi Brian,

Thank you for your reply.

I am located in the Netherlands. As the speedometer is showing km's, I assume this car comes from another European country. Therefore I think there is nothing registered of this car in the VIN database, but I could be wring. The complete chassis no is ZFFAA17B000073083.

As far as I can see it's got the KE-Jetronic system on it and these vacuum hoses sould connect to the evaporative fuel cannisters (as carguy says). The only strange thing is that the parts manual is showing 2 charcoal carbon canisters (number 17) for every TR model, but mine TR only got one (which looks different).

I hope you can help me out.

Attachment 36134


The "B" in the 8th digit shows the car to be a base European model. As such it should not have any charcoal cannister or connections for same. Charcoal cannisters are only for North America, Saudi Arabia and 88-91 Swiss cars. The photo you have here is for those cars, not yours. Your car originally had a vent hose from the fuel filler neck going through a one way valve, then overboard. All "B" VIN cars were built that way no matter the year of production.

If your car has had a charcoal cannister installed it strongly suggests to me that the car at some point in it's life was exported to North America and back again. The shops that did that type of conversion work often resorted to the type of workmanship we see here.

Like I said, your car has had some mixing and matching of parts.

Last edited by Brian; 10-25-2011 at 08:21 AM.
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post #13 of 16 Old 10-25-2011, 08:27 AM
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This is what your car's fuel plumbing should look like.

I did mislead you though in post 9. The vacuum bypass valve is used on all non North America and Swiss cars with K jet or KE. I have no idea why they would have been removed unless their operation somehow conflicted with the needs of other emission modifications made to the car.
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Last edited by Brian; 10-25-2011 at 08:35 AM.
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post #14 of 16 Old 10-25-2011, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
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That's very good information Brian. Thanks a lot.

I just found out one other thing about the car via Carfax, which corresponds with your information.


This is the history of the car I got so far:
  • July 1987: car registered new in the Netherlands
  • September 1987: car imported to Texas USA
  • December 1987: Vehicle declared to meet US highway safety specifications
  • December 1991: Title issued or updated
  • February 1996: car imported back to the Netherlands
This proves that the American shop conversion for the charcoal cannsiter (as you wrote) is indeed done for this car.

So, the only thing that is left for me to do is mounting 2 by-pass vacuum valves to the engine, and everything should be back on track again.

I have one more question. As per the USA law, is it required to replace the odometer and speedometer by "mile"-types when a European car is imported to the USA? Or is it allowed to leave the "km"-types in the car?

This information is valuable to me, because then I know whether the amount of km showing on the cars odometer might be correct.
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post #15 of 16 Old 10-25-2011, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petervg1 View Post
That's very good information Brian. Thanks a lot.

I just found out one other thing about the car via Carfax, which corresponds with your information.



This is the history of the car I got so far:
  • July 1987: car registered new in the Netherlands
  • September 1987: car imported to Texas USA
  • December 1987: Vehicle declared to meet US highway safety specifications
  • December 1991: Title issued or updated
  • February 1996: car imported back to the Netherlands
This proves that the American shop conversion for the charcoal cannsiter (as you wrote) is indeed done for this car.

So, the only thing that is left for me to do is mounting 2 by-pass vacuum valves to the engine, and everything should be back on track again.

I have one more question. As per the USA law, is it required to replace the odometer and speedometer by "mile"-types when a European car is imported to the USA? Or is it allowed to leave the "km"-types in the car?

This information is valuable to me, because then I know whether the amount of km showing on the cars odometer might be correct.

No requirements on the odometer. If it is a stand alone odometer it is probably still kilos. Even if part of the speedo it is often never changed by the federalizers.

Our US version Lamborghini LM002 has its mileage recorded in kilo's. Many Lambo's were built that way.
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post #16 of 16 Old 10-25-2011, 11:36 PM Thread Starter
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That's also good to know. This means that the original odometer is probably still there and that the 27.837km showing on the odometer now even might be right, because in 1991 there were 7.011 km registered in Florida and the car has not been driven since 1998.

With your information I now can build the engine back to it's original configuration. I hope to be able to do this and have the 30k service and clutch replacement done soon, so that I can finally drive the car (which I never did).

Brian, thanks a lot for your help. I really appreciate it.
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