Buying first ferrari, a 512TR. Need insight. - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 23 Old 06-06-2010, 06:19 AM Thread Starter
 
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Buying first ferrari, a 512TR. Need insight.

Hi,

I am new to this forum and am in the market to buy my first ferrari, a 512 TR to be exact. I have the choice between 3 at the present time. One in Canada and two in the U.S.

There seems to be some discrepenacy between the models and the price vs. mileage ratio and was interested in having some of your opinions on price.

Here is the line up:

1. 1992 Ferrari 512 TR. 31,063 miles. Black exterior, tan interior, tubi exhaust. Engine out at 15977 and 25954 miles. Thoroughly documented and in excellent condition. US$79,500. . Seller/Broker: Michael Sheehan. Loc: Missouri.

2. 1993 Ferrari 512 TR. 14,743 miles. Black on black, tubi exhaust. Engine out at 11k miles. Thoroughly documented and in excellent condition. US$86,998.. Seller/Broker: Las Vegas Motor Cars. Loc: Nevada.

3. 1992 Ferrari 512 TR. 9,100 miles. Grey ext., black int, standard exhaust. Fresh engine out service, new cam belts, valve adjustment, new seals/gaskets. Documented (owner is a little cagey on that), very good condition, leather on driver seat is worn, front compartment cylinder/holders need to be replaced. US$89,900.. Seller: Gentry Lane automobiles. Loc: Ontario, Canada.

Having looked at these offerings, it seems to be that the driving factor in price is mostly the mileage, not necessarily the condition. The latter car has some cosmetic and minor issues that need to be fixed, doesn't have the tubi exhaust (which is around 4k) and yet has the higher price tag, but less miles. The second car has 15 k more miles on it and only costs 6 k more than car no.1 with 31k miles.

I need someone to make sense of this as it seems to be more esoteric science than anything else...

I want the car to drive and enjoy, i don't need a museum piece. Thanks for helping a newbie.

Cheers,

M
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post #2 of 23 Old 06-06-2010, 08:49 AM
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I've worked with Mr. Sheehan quite a lot, he generally sells good cars and they tend to be priced in the upper range. The number of years that have passed since the major has been done is just as important to the car's history as the mileage since it was done. The more recent the better, you also want to know whom did the major as sometimes it's done "quickly" and sloppy to make the car sellable.
Traditionally 15,000mi is the breaking point for a Ferrari, any car with less will be in the upper price ranges and any car over that will work it's way down the range. Aside from myth and opinion a higher mileage car isn't a problem as long as the common conearns for that model have been addressed by the previous owners. You want to be sure to have the cars PPI'd including their service history by someone thouroughly qualified to get the real story on which car is most trustworthy.
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post #3 of 23 Old 06-06-2010, 09:20 AM
 
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Like what has been said before all ways a PPI, and with some one that knows that model.
Interior wear on the seat and other wear for 9100 miles would be a red flag for me. I would be looking at all service documentation very closely. Who did the engine out service? I would call and talk to them.
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post #4 of 23 Old 06-06-2010, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the insight.

I will definately have all records of service reviewed, before performing any purchase.

I will let you know what pans out.
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post #5 of 23 Old 06-06-2010, 11:44 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Josh,

My feeling is that the TR with 31k miles should be had for lower than the asking price, at least several thousand, considering the economic times. Let me know what your experience is in dealing pricing issues with Mr. Sheehan.

Also, considering that the other two cars have been on the market, both for at least two years, I would think that their asking price is too high, would you agree?

Regards,
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post #6 of 23 Old 06-06-2010, 12:23 PM
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The 512TR has always been worth twice what a Testarossa sells for, and they're still $45-65k today. I don't think $80-90k is unreasonable compared to the $130k a good TR once went for. As for the cars not selling for such a long period of time, that often indicates there's more to be concerned about than is being advertised in the sale in my experience. I haven't done any buying/selling business with Mike directly, our business was generally service related. I can tell you that you'll need to be on your toes to negotiate, he's very knowledgeable about the cars and has the experience needed to sell a car at the price he wants. He's not an "average" salesman playing Ferrari, he's serious about his business.
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post #7 of 23 Old 06-06-2010, 04:06 PM Thread Starter
 
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Again, thanks for the information Josh. I'll keep that in mind.
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post #8 of 23 Old 06-07-2010, 06:43 AM
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Best of luck, hope you find the car you want!
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post #9 of 23 Old 06-07-2010, 08:18 AM
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My only advice is do not buy the car based on price - A cheap Ferrari will almost certainly turn into a very expensive Ferrari due to deferred maintenance that you will end up having to pay to rectify - Maintenance/service costs on 512TR are not for the faint of heart or light of wallet so be warned :-)

I really like the 512 and its certainly the way to go over the TR, it looks and drives better (In my opinion at least) and will hold its value much better.

Have you considered a 550 Marenello as an alternative? I really recommend it as a good first Ferrari (v12) especially if it comes with a full maintenance record

Good hunting

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Past Ferrari's owned : 355, 360 stick, 360 F1, Challenge Stradale, 550 Marenello

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post #10 of 23 Old 06-07-2010, 09:00 AM
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The third won has been for sale for a number of years.
I know it's been on ebay for at least two years if not longer.

Gentry has a lot of nice vehicles, but I doubt that one has "just" got the major done when it has only been sitting for all this time.

Good luck on your search and welcome to Flife!

Cheers
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post #11 of 23 Old 06-07-2010, 12:15 PM
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I have worked with Mike Sheehan on a couple of deals over the years. Would not hesitate to do so again. He does know his stuff and his a hard negotiator.

Suggest you also take a look at the Buyers Guide here:

http://www.ferrarilife.com/library/guides.php
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post #12 of 23 Old 06-07-2010, 02:43 PM
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Welcome to FL and good luck with your search. I concur on comments for Mr. Sheehan. He is a professional with wealth of knowledge and experience. That alone is more comforting than dealing with a shop you do not know of.
As for the search, I am sure you have your reasons for the choice. Nevertheless, as suggested, do your homework and consider others if you will. w/ smiles Jimmy
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post #13 of 23 Old 06-07-2010, 03:59 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the comment FBI,

When I discussed with Gentry Lane late last year regarding the vehicle, they verbally told me that the engine out service needed to be performed, but the website said otherwise. Even then, it's been siting for so long that, something's amiss. My enthusiasm dropped when they failed to demonstrate the upfront attitude that one would expect to get when buying a car of this caliber. Actually, I don't think that they considered me a ''valid client''.

I like black better than grey anyway...

Last edited by marchambault; 06-07-2010 at 04:11 PM.
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post #14 of 23 Old 06-07-2010, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
 
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Dermot,

Thanks for 550 Marenello suggestion. However, I must say the 550 does not even come close to igniting in me the passion that the 512 TR does. For some reason, it fires up in me something that I can't explain. The original Testarossa and even 512m have styling issues that seem either outdated or just plain wrong. The 512TR has the right blend of aesthetics, performance and old schoolness that I like. The 550 starts of the path of electronics which I am not a big fan on in road cars.

I'll take your insight seriously. Buy the right Ferrari with the best records and best service history. It'll pay off in the long run.

By the way I really appreciate all of your comments and suggestions, this is very very helpful. Don't want to spend that kind of money and regret it.

Cheers,

I will keep you informed as I proceed.
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post #15 of 23 Old 06-07-2010, 04:18 PM
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Glad to know that you know exactly what you want. That is the most important factor. The rest comes naturally and the search is part of the fun. Good luck. w/ smiles Jimmy
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post #16 of 23 Old 06-07-2010, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marchambault View Post
Dermot,

Thanks for 550 Marenello suggestion. However, I must say the 550 does not even come close to igniting in me the passion that the 512 TR does. For some reason, it fires up in me something that I can't explain. The original Testarossa and even 512m have styling issues that seem either outdated or just plain wrong. The 512TR has the right blend of aesthetics, performance and old schoolness that I like. The 550 starts of the path of electronics which I am not a big fan on in road cars.

I'll take your insight seriously. Buy the right Ferrari with the best records and best service history. It'll pay off in the long run.

By the way I really appreciate all of your comments and suggestions, this is very very helpful. Don't want to spend that kind of money and regret it.

Cheers,

I will keep you informed as I proceed.
I understand the passion my friend! - The mid engine cars are a wonderful thing :-) I have the red haze myself!!!

Current Ferrari owned: Red Scuderia
Past Ferrari's owned : 355, 360 stick, 360 F1, Challenge Stradale, 550 Marenello

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post #17 of 23 Old 06-07-2010, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marchambault View Post
The 550 starts of the path of electronics which I am not a big fan on in road cars.
Just one comment there - the electronics in the 550 do not dilute the driving experience. The 550 is a very analog car, just switch off the rudimentary ASR and you're driving a modern version of the Daytona.


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post #18 of 23 Old 06-10-2010, 05:34 PM
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Personally I like the black/tan combination, it just looks classy. Tan tends to reflect out some of the heat a black car sucks in. Keeping a black TR clean is a big job, I know this from personal experience. But when it's spotless NOTHING looks badder than a black TR. I would want a car that has been driven a bit, it is likely better sorted than a lower mile car. Definately read up all you can about the Testarossa line. The flat-12 motor is built like a battleship - very tough indeed. The only weak link in the 512TR is the trans & differential. But if you don't abuse the car (no burn outs) you should be fine. The performance of the 512TR will surprise many, it is very quick and fast. It is twice the car the Testarossa is for about 50% more money.

That Gentry Lane car is NOT the one you want unless you get it cheap. Their price was in the 70s at one time, and they recently raised it - what are they thinking during these hard economic times??? That car has been painted, I believe it was originally a "display" car that was trucked around North America back in the day. I do not believe it was originally Grigio Metallizato...and I don't know why they painted it that color. Oh...another thing, look closely at the side strakes in the doors, one or two of them are bent. Gentry is NOT motivated to sell that car for some reason. They will have it forever....
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post #19 of 23 Old 06-10-2010, 06:01 PM Thread Starter
 
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Carguy,

Thanks for the insight. I totally agree with you regarding Gentry Lane. They actually moved the TR outside of the show room. Don't know where they put it. For some reason their attitude isn't right.

That black TR is in Missouri is really getting on my nerves...
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post #20 of 23 Old 06-10-2010, 06:57 PM
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The diff carrier housing issue was actually primarily with the Testarossa. To remedy the issue we replace them with 512TR housings which were thicker castings.
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