I am an prevaricating idiot! - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 18 Old 12-07-2013, 12:57 AM Thread Starter
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I am an prevaricating idiot!

I am beating myself up for missing out on a great opportunity: all my own fault too.

In the summer a very good friend of mine went with a group of early 911 enthusiasts (DDK) to visit the Porsche factory. They stayed a couple of nights near Heidelberg and I went across in the 355 to meet up with them for one night (the 355 disgraced itself and I ended up going back to Switzerland on a low-loader, but that is another story).

At the dinner that night I got chatting with one of my friend's friends. Somehow F40s came up (probably me eulagising about them!) By chance the person had a friend with an F40 that he wanted to sell. Sounded perfect for me as I would much rather have a well used car I could use without worrying about mileage and destroying its value. Guy had owned it for 20 years. Had driven it a lot so was quite high mileage but had been well maintained - just been through the work shop and had had new tanks. Genuine reason for sale: owner in his 70s and just felt he was too old (keeping his 246 though). Price was very attractive.

And I didn't buy it!!!!!

What a fool.

I dithered because car was in the UK and I am still in Switzerland and logistically it would have been a bit problematic (and was caught up with purchase of our home in the UK plus dealing with the fallout from my speeding incidence). In retrospect all minor issues.

Owner sold it to a London dealer for about what I would have offered (I had mentioned a rough price that the person communicated). Dealer sold it quickly at a big premium.

Ever since have been bashing myself on the head. Doubt I will get such a golden opportunity again.

Please feel free to heap approbrium on my head: I fully deserve it.
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post #2 of 18 Old 12-07-2013, 02:17 AM
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w/ smiles
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post #3 of 18 Old 12-07-2013, 04:42 AM
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There are always more cars out there Schnellmann,

however the longer you leave it, the higher they will go!

There are a few on PH at present, 425k, 448k and 525k..
Two sold for $1.3m in the states last month by all accounts, the market for these seems to be really hotting up, which can only be a good thing for the EU models, the earliest of which can now be imported there (and hence is likely pulling up prices.. 3xxk straight cars are gone this spin round)

If you want a car.. get a car.. there is really nothing else quite like the F40... I recall your post many moons back offering Dinner for a pax ride.. and the name has stuck since then.. with you missing car after car after car by being (prohibitively) cautious (easy to say with hindsight I know!)

Best of luck either way chap.. feel free to drop me a PM if you want to talk ownership experiences

Last edited by JamieBeeston; 12-07-2013 at 04:52 AM.
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post #4 of 18 Old 12-07-2013, 04:46 AM
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No need - you are doing an excellent job all by yourself
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post #5 of 18 Old 12-07-2013, 05:01 AM
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You may want to consider buying a 73 Porsche 911 "E" or "S" model if you are looking for investment grade cars. For the money of an F40, you could create a nice investment portfolio. A group of us sat in on a talk by a local Porsche investment manager and it was quite an eye opener for me. Unfortunately, the broker was not registered with the SEC so I backed out. It reminded me of a Bernie Madoff schema (multiple owners of each car, ugh!)

1973 Porsche 911 | Hagerty

And for heavens sake, quit beating yourself up.

We all missed out on the Lusso and Dino price spikes.

Well, most of us anyway.
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post #6 of 18 Old 12-07-2013, 06:50 AM
 
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Am in the same position having looked at a car one year ago (25k km, 2 owner, genuine car) and deciding I needed to understand the market better and there was plenty of time.
BIG mistake!
As has been said, if it looks right go for it. The price will most likely seem high if not very high but you will have the pleasure of ownership and it will hopefully appreciate in value too.
I am still looking and don't want to be beating myself up in a few years time!
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post #7 of 18 Old 12-07-2013, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alps View Post
I am still looking and don't want to be beating myself up in a few years time!
Out of interest, given there are cars on the market presently, what is it about them that's putting you off / not made you buy one?
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post #8 of 18 Old 12-07-2013, 08:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieBeeston View Post
Out of interest, given there are cars on the market presently, what is it about them that's putting you off / not made you buy one?
Ideally, I am looking for a Swiss car as imports are subject to 12% duty and VAT as well as being not straightforward to get an F40 registered here. The car needs to be cat and there are not that many (or any) Swiss cars on the market right now.
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post #9 of 18 Old 12-07-2013, 09:25 AM
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If we all started to post these kind of stories, we would fill the place up. don't remind me of all the missed opportunities I have had....



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post #10 of 18 Old 12-07-2013, 12:33 PM
 
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Would be interested to know what you consider high mileage on an F40 and how it affects values?
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post #11 of 18 Old 12-07-2013, 12:39 PM
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Would be interested to know what you consider high mileage on an F40 and how it affects values?
Personally I would worship a high mileage F40, isn't that just the pinnacle of hard core?! And I would make sure to develop a friendship with the guy I bought it from.

Values - ? In my book it adds value. In fact, if I were the head of Ferrari marketing I'd give a prize to highest mileage F40 owner.

Salve,
Capo

The bad news: Time flies
The good news: I'm the pilot

You cannot make life longer but you can make it wider and higher.
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post #12 of 18 Old 12-07-2013, 12:42 PM
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If we all started to post these kind of stories, we would fill the place up. don't remind me of all the missed opportunities I have had....
Oh this is getting horrible. 20 years ago a mate asked if I wanted to go 50-50 in property purchase. Potential residential subdivision. My outlay would be $500,000. After a little thought I backed out. He sold that 50% 4 years later for $50,000,000. By far my biggest blunder!!! The pain just doesn't go away.

David.
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post #13 of 18 Old 12-07-2013, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16M Down Under View Post
Oh this is getting horrible. 20 years ago a mate asked if I wanted to go 50-50 in property purchase. Potential residential subdivision. My outlay would be $500,000. After a little thought I backed out. He sold that 50% 4 years later for $50,000,000. By far my biggest blunder!!! The pain just doesn't go away.

David.
David - if I were you that one would have to be erased from memory.

Just tell yourself it never happened ... twas simply a bad dream.

Besides if you had all that money you would be suffering with immense agony trying to spend it
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post #14 of 18 Old 12-07-2013, 02:54 PM
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David - if I were you that one would have to be erased from memory.

Just tell yourself it never happened ... twas simply a bad dream.

Besides if you had all that money you would be suffering with immense agony trying to spend it
True Mate, besides wife 1.0 would have taken it in divorce. It's like the snail saying to the slug. "So the divorce was tough hey".

Thanks, I feel much better now.

David.
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post #15 of 18 Old 12-07-2013, 11:54 PM Thread Starter
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Having read David's post I suddenly don't feel so bad!

Mileage was over 40'000 km, which is nothing for a 25
Year old car but most F40s for sale seem to be a lot
lower. One specialist told me he isn't interested in anything with more than 15'000 km!

Price would have started with a 2 not a 3.....

I'm unsettled by the price rises of classics over the past year or so. Feels like a bubble because the cars haven't changed and the world economy hasn't changed fundamentally so not sure what is driving such growth outside of speculation.

I am not an investor or speculator. Just a car
nut. So focused only on could I own one without losing too much. Want to buy to use (as much as possible). Also wouldn't be buying to add to a large
portfolio of cars (would have been my only car outside of a BMW
shared with my wife).

I think prices have gone nuts on early 911s too.
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post #16 of 18 Old 12-08-2013, 02:37 AM
 
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I think prices have gone nuts on early 911s too.
After stripping down a few 911 to bare (rusted) metal it amaze me why people pay that money for them. The bad thing is the meaning of a full restoration to many of them is applying 20 kgs of bondo and other filler materials on selected parts of the body. Rgds///Thomas
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post #17 of 18 Old 12-08-2013, 07:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schnellmann View Post
Mileage was over 40'000 km, which is nothing for a 25
Year old car but most F40s for sale seem to be a lot
lower. One specialist told me he isn't interested in anything with more than 15'000 km!
Agree the market is largely driven at the moment by investors/speculators and as car nuts we have no choice but to keep up or step aside.

I think there are two markets right now, one for ultra low km cars to be kept in collections or as pure investments and never likely to be driven (or serviced!), where asking prices are ca. EUR 600k and another for used cars with 25k km to 50k km with asking prices in the EUR 400k to 500k range. My sense is above 50k km, prices drop relatively fast despite the fact that the engine is probably good for double this before major work is necessary.

Which then gets to the mileage issue. It is very easy to disconnect the speedo on F40s (see YouTube for evidence!) so what is the real mileage on offer? If you plan to keep the car for 20 years, mileage will be less of an issue, service records will be more important.
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post #18 of 18 Old 12-09-2013, 03:17 AM
 
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To fake less mileage is easy and I think many of them are. Rgds///Thomas
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