Drove the Enzo and the F50... - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 24 Old 10-09-2013, 08:24 AM Thread Starter
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Drove the Enzo and the F50...

And it was fun. I first tried the Enzo for a few laps at Montmelo and after i did only one lap with the F50. The experience was incredible!
The Enzo accelerates hard and coners very nice! I was oriented by a profesional driver so it gave me the oportunity to understand and take better advantage of the car.
After 12 to 15 laps the profesional driver was telling me that we were doing very nicely but that we had come to the limit of the car. By this he ment corners and straights. I did not wanted to go more laps as i was seeing that there was a lot of stones and rubber on the track and i do not like this. Maybe i am too picky but that is me. When i went on the F50 i did only one because of the same reason and with this one i became even more concern. On top of this we decided that this cars where too nice to get driven at this place. In any case my experience was extraordinary!
But now i want to keep learning and experiencing this tracking business so i have come to the delema of what to do next? Buy a Challenge , GT3 , GT2 , or what?
Other people are telling that this option it is too expensive and that i should buy a KTM-X BOW that would give me the same pleasure but at a fraction of the cost!
Any way , i need some good and hard advice from Ferrarilife!

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post #2 of 24 Old 10-09-2013, 08:36 AM
 
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This thread is worth reading through:
http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/fe...uck-track.html

It comes down to what you want: A.) to practice, practice, practice how to drive at the limit which requires a hard core track car which is, beleive it or not, the likes of a Spec Miata. (It is worth your while renting one just to learn what the fuss is all about.) Alternatively, B.) if you just occasionally want to enjoy slipping and sliding at the limits of your confidence/courage/skill, your stable already has the most beautiful horses available. Personally, I enjoy the latter, but am willing to risk the stone chips and possible mechanical breakdowns.

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post #3 of 24 Old 10-09-2013, 09:58 AM
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Pablo,

next time you have to make a few laps more with the F50! (Donīt know, if Yours is in Barchetta Config. But an open F50 is just the best feeling on a race track!)

I think You arenīt that different with the stones on the track... We one made a "cleaning lap" to sweep all the stones away...


Sadly we havenīt been on the track with the Enzo so far... Just my father.
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post #4 of 24 Old 10-09-2013, 05:08 PM
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Pablo - on a far lesser scale.

I took my 16M for a track weekend and it was an absolute blast.

After seeing a few spins and accidents - my thought was go fast have fun but most of all be safe.

I bought a pristine freshly finished 360 Challenge Car with a lot of upgrades even brake bias.

Reliable strong engine great balance and plenty of horsepower - but most of all very safe. Love it so much that if the right one came along it would be very tempting.

The 430 and 458 is a whole different level - not so much price but a lot more expensive to run even changing the tires requires too much equipment. My feeling is for under 100k the 360 is the best weapon out there.

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post #5 of 24 Old 10-09-2013, 10:50 PM
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Pablo, Great to hear that you have taken the cars out on the track.

In terms of getting a track only car, suggest you take a look at the latest issue of EVO magazine as they have a good article rating the best current track cars.
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post #6 of 24 Old 10-09-2013, 11:01 PM Thread Starter
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Pablo - on a far lesser scale.

I took my 16M for a track weekend and it was an absolute blast.

After seeing a few spins and accidents - my thought was go fast have fun but most of all be safe.

I bought a pristine freshly finished 360 Challenge Car with a lot of upgrades even brake bias.

Reliable strong engine great balance and plenty of horsepower - but most of all very safe. Love it so much that if the right one came along it would be very tempting.

The 430 and 458 is a whole different level - not so much price but a lot more expensive to run even changing the tires requires too much equipment. My feeling is for under 100k the 360 is the best weapon out there.
Doug , tell me a little more about the safety issues. I am very concern about this! I have seen too many accidents on internet! Why do you think 360 is safer than any of the others available?

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post #7 of 24 Old 10-09-2013, 11:05 PM Thread Starter
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Pablo, Great to hear that you have taken the cars out on the track.

In terms of getting a track only car, suggest you take a look at the latest issue of EVO magazine as they have a good article rating the best current track cars.
Boxer , i have seen the article and to be honest i think the Mclaren is the choice! But i am concern about the safety of doing this! It os fun indeed , but i do not want to get killed in the process. I was thinking in buying something like an F12 or a 458 S for this type of activity because it has airbags , safety features , etc... What do you think?

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post #8 of 24 Old 10-10-2013, 12:16 AM
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Boxer , i have seen the article and to be honest i think the Mclaren is the choice! But i am concern about the safety of doing this! It os fun indeed , but i do not want to get killed in the process. I was thinking in buying something like an F12 or a 458 S for this type of activity because it has airbags , safety features , etc... What do you think?
Pablo, my honest 2 Cents as a father of 4 growing up childreen: Get a 360 Challenge with full roll Cage protection an indoor fire distinguisher activator. Ist probably the cheapest way to exercise"in every aspect" expensive Hobby. With the full roll Cage, you are about as good protected as it gest. Use a good racing suit, a modern helmet and a "hans" neck protection System...and you will be fine.

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post #9 of 24 Old 10-10-2013, 01:10 AM
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Doug , tell me a little more about the safety issues. I am very concern about this! I have seen too many accidents on internet! Why do you think 360 is safer than any of the others available?
212 answered the question and that's exactly why I went with the 360 Challenge car.

I also joined CCR which has races around the US and they only allow Challenge cars believe there are 60 registered cars and drivers.

Race gear - Stilo full face CF helmet 3 layer nomex suit Hans device and everything else ran 7500.00

Added a cool suit set up with shirts 1,000,00 It's a big cooler that sends ice water around your torso.

Mclaren for 300k is tempting - race set up not street legal but there is no series to run in - perhaps down the road

A proper 360 is 440 hp and lightweight vs the 430 / 458 it has a lot of advantages and much less to run,

By the way no air bags are allowed - so for 100k you are all set.and most of all safe!

Fnd a race support team to prep and service the car all weekend with plenty of spares.

Barring nothing major goes wrong a good weekend runs around 10 - 15k for everything and most of all you can walk if something does go wrong, Double that for a 430 and triple it for a 458.

For me a well sorted 360 made the most sense all around and one can always go up to the 430 / 458 once they feel comfortable.A good 360 will run with a 430 the 458 is a whole different league and to be honest not as much fun as it drives itself and has too much hp.
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Last edited by champagne612; 10-10-2013 at 01:25 AM.
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post #10 of 24 Old 10-10-2013, 01:46 AM
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212 answered the question and that's exactly why I went with the 360 Challenge car.

I also joined CCR which has races around the US and they only allow Challenge cars believe there are 60 registered cars and drivers.

Race gear - Stilo full face CF helmet 3 layer nomex suit Hans device and everything else ran 7500.00

Added a cool suit set up with shirts 1,000,00 It's a big cooler that sends ice water around your torso.

Mclaren for 300k is tempting - race set up not street legal but there is no series to run in - perhaps down the road

A proper 360 is 440 hp and lightweight vs the 430 / 458 it has a lot of advantages and much less to run,

By the way no air bags are allowed - so for 100k you are all set.and most of all safe!

Fnd a race support team to prep and service the car all weekend with plenty of spares.

Barring nothing major goes wrong a good weekend runs around 10 - 15k for everything and most of all you can walk if something does go wrong, Double that for a 430 and triple it for a 458.

For me a well sorted 360 made the most sense all around and one can always go up to the 430 / 458 once they feel comfortable.A good 360 will run with a 430 the 458 is a whole different league and to be honest not as much fun as it drives itself and has too much hp.
Your assumption of 10-15k' per Weekend all in all does sounds realistic to me.
Lets make a small calculation:
Running costs: 6 Weekends at 12.5 k' per year = 75k' base running costs
Unforeseen accidents per year = 20'k
Unforeseen mechanical restoration like gearbox overhaul, wheel hubs etc. per year = 20k'

So rough running costs per year 100 - 120 K
Value detoriation in 5 years of car from 100' down to 50'

5 year = 30 track Weekends rough costs 550 - 650' k ! Worthwhile ? Well in a Ferrari propably yes, however if somebody is not so sure about, tracking a Renault Clio Cup edition is about 5 times cheaper and gives almost the fun back....with a different badge of course

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post #11 of 24 Old 10-10-2013, 04:21 AM Thread Starter
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Pablo, my honest 2 Cents as a father of 4 growing up childreen: Get a 360 Challenge with full roll Cage protection an indoor fire distinguisher activator. Ist probably the cheapest way to exercise"in every aspect" expensive Hobby. With the full roll Cage, you are about as good protected as it gest. Use a good racing suit, a modern helmet and a "hans" neck protection System...and you will be fine.
What about airbags? In regards to the 430 or 458 you recommend the 360 because is the only one that can be fitted with all the thnigs that you metion or as Doug says , it is cheaper and as much fun?

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Last edited by Pablo; 10-10-2013 at 04:48 AM.
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post #12 of 24 Old 10-10-2013, 04:32 AM
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What about airbags? I regards to the 430 or 458 you recommend the 360 because is the only one that can be fitted with all the thnigs that you metion or as Doug says it is cheaper and as much fun?
Pablo, I do not care too much about Airbags for a car used on a track. Additional protection with a good Overall roll Cage and the fact that frontal accidents are less common on tracks than in normal street traffic are reasons to me.

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post #13 of 24 Old 10-10-2013, 04:47 AM
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What about airbags? I regards to the 430 or 458 you recommend the 360 because is the only one that can be fitted with all the thnigs that you metion or as Doug says it is cheaper and as much fun?

With a full face 6 point harness and Hans device no need for air bags.

No Challenge cars have air bags.

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post #14 of 24 Old 10-10-2013, 05:00 AM Thread Starter
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Doug , in order to understand you better please expain me why is it that you think the 458 C is not that fun as the 360 and that the HP is too much? The cost factor i did understand but i understood that the systems for drive improvement you can turn the off!

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post #15 of 24 Old 10-10-2013, 05:02 AM
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Your assumption of 10-15k' per Weekend all in all does sounds realistic to me.
Lets make a small calculation:
Running costs: 6 Weekends at 12.5 k' per year = 75k' base running costs
Unforeseen accidents per year = 20'k
Unforeseen mechanical restoration like gearbox overhaul, wheel hubs etc. per year = 20k'

So rough running costs per year 100 - 120 K
Value detoriation in 5 years of car from 100' down to 50'

5 year = 30 track Weekends rough costs 550 - 650' k ! Worthwhile ? Well in a Ferrari propably yes, however if somebody is not so sure about, tracking a Renault Clio Cup edition is about 5 times cheaper and gives almost the fun back....with a different badge of course

I tossed out that number based on my running costs for CCR. Tires are probably the biggest expense and when your serious new rubber adds up.

212 - your numbers are spot on as I budgeted 100k per year.

CCR has a lot of sponsors - Pirelli Capristo Brembo and others that help offset the track cost.

We also receive an entire track suit shoes gloves etc. from OMP.

CCR runs it like a real Challenge Car weekend - parties events etc.

I don't think these cars will depreciate and may even appreciate especially if retired Challenge Car racing keeps growing like it has.

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post #16 of 24 Old 10-10-2013, 05:07 AM Thread Starter
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I just saw a video of Allan Simonsen getting killed and that has me shocked!
Then i saw the list of deaths in LeMans , Nascar , etc... And even at practice they have gotten killed.
I was wondering if the reason is too much speed , or what? Because safety issues i would not think that is the case. I bet Allan had the correct helmet , the correct hans device , etc... So why did ot happened?

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post #17 of 24 Old 10-10-2013, 05:17 AM
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Doug , in order to understand you better please expain me why is it that you think the 458 C is not that fun as the 360 and that the HP is too much? The cost factor i did understand but i understood that the systems for drive improvement you can turn the off!
Main reason is the cost - you have to be willing to spend 30 - 40k vs 10 - 15k to run.

458 Challenge Car is 220k vs 85k and be willing to buy another in case of a bad accident.

A bumper on a 360 is 2k and 10k on a 458. Same goes with parts - so it adds up fast.

Changing tires on the 430 and 458 require air tanks to lift the car - so you will always need support.

Pablo my wife rides Hunters and Jumpers - seeing the cost difference to get to the highest level IMO ruins the experience ... but please don't quote me

Whatever you buy make sure it comes with a HUGE amount of spares.

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post #18 of 24 Old 10-10-2013, 05:26 AM
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I just saw a video of Allan Simonsen getting killed and that has me shocked!
Then i saw the list of deaths in LeMans , Nascar , etc... And even at practice they have gotten killed.
I was wondering if the reason is too much speed , or what? Because safety issues i would not think that is the case. I bet Allan had the correct helmet , the correct hans device , etc... So why did ot happened?
Racers push the limits - stay away from tracks with walls and no run off.

Take a lot of time with an instructor and get to know a track.

“Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you.” JC

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post #19 of 24 Old 10-10-2013, 05:47 AM
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Main reason is the cost - you have to be willing to spend 30 - 40k vs 10 - 15k to run.

458 Challenge Car is 220k vs 85k and be willing to buy another in case of a bad accident.

A bumper on a 360 is 2k and 10k on a 458. Same goes with parts - so it adds up fast.

Changing tires on the 430 and 458 require air tanks to lift the car - so you will always need support.

Pablo my wife rides Hunters and Jumpers - seeing the cost difference to get to the highest level IMO ruins the experience ... but please don't quote me

Whatever you buy make sure it comes with a HUGE amount of spares.
Thats interesting. Have not thought that the difference is actually THAT huge. Running a 458 Challenge season with one or two off track experiences in that case will set you back about an F40 ! I choose the later if in doubt as the money, a least partially, after all is still there!

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post #20 of 24 Old 10-10-2013, 05:53 AM
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Thats interesting. Have not thought that the difference is actually THAT huge. Running a 458 Challenge season with one or two off track experiences in that case will set you back about an F40 ! I choose the later if in doubt as the money, a least partially, after all is still there!
I am being generous - a 458 hub is 5k and a 430 is 1800.00

Parts are probably triple on average and the faster you go - the wider you open the wallet.

212 - there are brand new 458 Challegne Cars - once the owner found out running costs they canned it.

Could be the very reason F40's increased

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