Highest Mileage F50 - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 60 Old 11-18-2012, 11:10 PM Thread Starter
 
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Highest Mileage F50

Hey guys, this is my first post on FLife!

I'm so excited to find a community of people who are so passionate about Fcars. Boxer, Pablo, 212 Export, you guys are such an inspiration and I have been learning a ton through your write ups and experiences. (I've gone back and read all of the posts on F40 and F50)

Anyway, I wanted to get your opinion on this F50 for sale by Micheal Sheehan. I know you guys have mentioned that he is a great guy to work with. You have also mentioned that high mileage isn't something to shy away from if the car has detailed service history and gets driven often. This F50 is ultra high mileage but has just received a new engine. Service seems really well documented.

1995 Ferrari F50 Serial Number 104799 - main page

What do you guys think? (I'm based in San Diego, CA so the US version is appealing until the F50 turns 25)

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post #2 of 60 Old 11-19-2012, 01:08 AM
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Welcome to FLife.

It is the highest mileage F50 I have heard of but it does seem to have been very well cared for. I would check to see why the engine was replaced at only 50k miles as they should be good for 3x that. If you are looking for a car to drive, might be an excellent buy but would need a comprehensive inspection.
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post #3 of 60 Old 11-19-2012, 03:19 AM
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Resale will always be a bit tough with a non-original engine, but as Boxer says could be a great driver's car. Looks fabulous in black, I have to say!

Boxer - what do you think of the asking price? It seems a bit high for me with so many miles and a replacement engine. Not that that is a big surprise, Sheehan's asking prices are always on the high side, it seems to me.


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post #4 of 60 Old 11-19-2012, 05:19 AM
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@tomcattmatt: I have studies the add some weeks before as this car seems to have some special history as the "F50K". It seems there are some F50's out there with already some replaced engines. The car looks very nice, however Onno argument about a possible resale value needs to be considered.
Anyway if someone really wants a american F50 and there are no other offers then you either wait or have to bite the apple. However I strongly believe that there are american F50's with lower mileage on offer ( at least 1-2, just my 2 cents).

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post #5 of 60 Old 11-19-2012, 05:22 AM
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If in doubt contact Marcel Massini, our forum member, he will likely know if there are any alternatives or if it is not so seldom for F50's to have a exchanged engine.

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post #6 of 60 Old 11-19-2012, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyO View Post

Boxer - what do you think of the asking price? It seems a bit high for me with so many miles and a replacement engine. Not that that is a big surprise, Sheehan's asking prices are always on the high side, it seems to me.


Onno
Not sure on US asking prices for F50s these days. US F50s do tend to priced significantly higher than European F50s as supply is very limited. All US F50s were manufactured in 1995.
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post #7 of 60 Old 11-19-2012, 03:05 PM Thread Starter
 
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Boxer,

So the options for a US resident are:

Buy a 1995 US Version at a steep premium
Buy a 1995 Euro Version and have the Dot Conversion ($90K)
Wait until 2020 for the 25 year mark, so one can get any year model?
Anything else?

Thanks

Matt
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post #8 of 60 Old 11-19-2012, 03:13 PM Thread Starter
 
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If in doubt contact Marcel Massini, our forum member, he will likely know if there are any alternatives or if it is not so seldom for F50's to have a exchanged engine.
Thanks 212, I'll PM him.

I agree that the new engine might hurt resale value, however I am looking for my F50 to be a drivers car. Right now just trying to get a feel for the market for as the prices are higher in the US.

Also I prefer the the look of the Euro versions for both the F50 and F40 over the US versions so I may look into the DOT conversion.

Matt
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post #9 of 60 Old 11-19-2012, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by tomcattmatt View Post
Thanks 212, I'll PM him.

I agree that the new engine might hurt resale value, however I am looking for my F50 to be a drivers car. Right now just trying to get a feel for the market for as the prices are higher in the US.

Also I prefer the the look of the Euro versions for both the F50 and F40 over the US versions so I may look into the DOT conversion.

Matt
Matt

I am in a similar mode few months ahead or behind one way or another.

F40 F50 something special and resale isn't a big factor but a proper car is #1.

I wouldn't mind bringing over a car - but it has to be worth the hassle.

The F50's appeal is slightly greater than the F40 but I see the price gap closing between the two.
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post #10 of 60 Old 11-19-2012, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomcattmatt View Post
Boxer,

So the options for a US resident are:

Buy a 1995 US Version at a steep premium
Buy a 1995 Euro Version and have the Dot Conversion ($90K)
Wait until 2020 for the 25 year mark, so one can get any year model?
Anything else?

Thanks

Matt
Yes, but 95 Euro version F50 are both very rare (almost all the 95s were US spec cars) and most of the few F50s that were made for Europe have already been exported to the US.

FYI, in Canada the limit is only 15 years.
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post #11 of 60 Old 11-20-2012, 06:36 AM
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Yes, but 95 Euro version F50 are both very rare (almost all the 95s were US spec cars) and most of the few F50s that were made for Europe have already been exported to the US.

FYI, in Canada the limit is only 15 years.
Mine is a Euro '95....anybody bidding ?!

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post #12 of 60 Old 11-20-2012, 06:42 AM
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Matt

I am in a similar mode few months ahead or behind one way or another.

F40 F50 something special and resale isn't a big factor but a proper car is #1.

I wouldn't mind bringing over a car - but it has to be worth the hassle.

The F50's appeal is slightly greater than the F40 but I see the price gap closing between the two.
Doug, that an interesting point of yours.

How about that way: F40 prices in the US may fall as more Euro spec F40 will be able to be imported to the US as the car becomes 25 years old ?! European spec F40 would be more desirable not only because of the look but because of the lower weight. And now the cherry: A Perspex window, no cat, no suspension lift system Euro F40 without anything changed (brakes, Turbos etc.) will IMO longterm to be the best bet on all street F40's.

Doug, have you ever driven/co driven a F40 or F50 ?

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post #13 of 60 Old 11-20-2012, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
 
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Doug, that an interesting point of yours.

How about that way: F40 prices in the US may fall as more Euro spec F40 will be able to be imported to the US as the car becomes 25 years old ?! European spec F40 would be more desirable not only because of the look but because of the lower weight.
212,

I totally agree. I think prices of F40's in the US will fall somewhat because of the increased supply. The Euro models are better in every way.

Matt
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post #14 of 60 Old 11-20-2012, 12:35 PM
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Matt, i'm not saying US F40 will fall in absolute terms, but they will eventually loose their premium over Euro model F40 prices or even more.

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post #15 of 60 Old 11-20-2012, 12:50 PM
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I would be surprised to the extreme to see any F50 motor make it to six figure mileage. The F50 engine unlike any other street car in existance was a detuned race engine. Race engines are not built for longevity, they are built for maximum output and the two requirements are at extreme odds. I have done considerable work on F50 engines and there is not a single part in them designed for long, carefree use. Even at 25,000 miles they show considerable wear. Actually I find it no surprise that one needed a motor at 53,000 miles. If he was my client I would congratulate him for getting that far.
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post #16 of 60 Old 11-20-2012, 12:53 PM
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212,

I totally agree. I think prices of F40's in the US will fall somewhat because of the increased supply. The Euro models are better in every way.

Matt


How so?

US F40's made more HP. Production was delayed due to homologation so every improvement and update was applied to them.
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post #17 of 60 Old 11-20-2012, 01:27 PM
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I would be surprised to the extreme to see any F50 motor make it to six figure mileage. The F50 engine unlike any other street car in existance was a detuned race engine. Race engines are not built for longevity, they are built for maximum output and the two requirements are at extreme odds. I have done considerable work on F50 engines and there is not a single part in them designed for long, carefree use. Even at 25,000 miles they show considerable wear. Actually I find it no surprise that one needed a motor at 53,000 miles. If he was my client I would congratulate him for getting that far.
Fully understand your general technical assumption (and start to save money). I would be very interested in your observations on what is especially prone to fragility (if not all as you say)

However relatively (in terms of F50 saying)I tend to find a point in the fact that obviously most owners never drive their F50 does not means that a 50K' miles car is rare from a mechanical ability point of view...it mainly says...nobody is driving them so far...until today or are not openly offering them and may have those miles too. The F50 is "only" 17 years old by now. How many 25 years old F40 do we see on the sales market with 50'K miles ?
But the F40 is a much simpler overall engine construction, no question about, and prone to high mileage ability, much more than the F50 of course, with its totally special (failing) racing components. I guess its part of the equation too, which makes it so special.

Also a important point to me is the fact that replacing a engine in the case of a F50 is probably a wise thing to do. The involved costs of app. (guessing) 70 - 100 US represents about 15% of value. Compare that to a restoration of a V12 engine from the 60's (250 PF;GTE,330GTC,365 2+2, Daytona etc.) and you still get the better cost/value terms (just as a pressed out comparison). Probably worthwhile therefore to consider the black US F50 !!

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post #18 of 60 Old 11-20-2012, 01:40 PM
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Fully understand your general technical assumption (and start to save money). I would be very interested in your observations on what is especially prone to fragility (if not all as you say)

However relatively (in terms of F50 saying)I tend to find a point in the fact that obviously most owners never drive their F50 does not means that a 50K' miles car is rare from a mechanical ability point of view...it mainly says...nobody is driving them so far...until today or are not openly offering them and may have those miles too. The F50 is "only" 17 years old by now. How many 25 years old F40 do we see on the sales market with 50'K miles ?
But the F40 is a much simpler overall engine construction, no question about, and prone to high mileage ability, much more than the F50 of course, with its totally special (failing) racing components. I guess its part of the equation too, which makes it so special.

Probably worthwhile therefore to consider the black US F50 !!
212 Is there any concern the F50 engine simply won't be available?

When I bought my 69Z28 - one thing I did was pull the original engine and put in a non numbers matching.

Do owners of the F50 do the same - if 50k is the norm it would be a good idea and it also makes the black one more appealing.

The only other de tuned engine that would cost more is the Veyron and those owners seem to have money vineyards.
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post #19 of 60 Old 11-20-2012, 01:45 PM
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212 Is there any concern the F50 engine simply won't be available?

When I bought my 69Z28 - one thing I did was pull the original engine and put in a non numbers matching.

Do owners of the F50 do the same - if 50k is the norm it would be a good idea and it also makes the black one more appealing.
They will reproduce your engine at Ferrari factory. Question of price. With 350 produced, and that being a single type of engine, not found similar in other street ferrari's (as the 250 V12 i.e.) scarcity will be always a point. Just my 2 cents

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post #20 of 60 Old 11-20-2012, 01:56 PM
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Sorry, my english is so bad, but when reading thru Sheehans report about the work carried on over time for the F50, am I right, is the buyer getting the F50 with a new engine installed and the old one partially restored by Ferrari with it? If that would be the case I would rate the price very competitive. 1 F50, 1 spare engine ~USD 100', 4 extra wheels ~$15', all little things servicewise done, rare US F50.....sounds not bad (if I'm not misinterpreting?)

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