The Elephant in the Room - Recent Enzo Activity - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 31 Old 01-05-2012, 05:15 PM Thread Starter
 
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The Elephant in the Room - Recent Enzo Activity

I hear from people on a fairly regular basis - dealers, brokers, end users - invariably looking for a specific car, or looking for a specific model. Now that's not to say I'm some kind of guru, but my database affords me access to information on a broader scale than a quick scan of eBay. My obsession with Enzos has made me a point of contact for some people; and lately, Enzos are a hot topic of conversation.

A few months ago, I saw an increase in the frequency with which people were contacting me, looking for Enzos. Some even offered finder's fees. Within the last month, Enzo availability has dried up like post-hangover Irish skin in the Sahara desert. Would-be owners - people who were price-shy just a few months ago - are now emerging, with or without representation, waving open checkbooks in the hopes of securing an Enzo. A year ago, $1.2MM was the sweet spot for a red Enzo with 1-3K miles. Today, a thousand-mile red Enzo is firm at $1.45MM (actually, that was a few weeks ago - that car has since sold).

So why the sudden increase in prices, and the subsequent lack of availability? With an increase in prices, you'd think more people would be willing to sell. Has the economic meltdown of recent years finished its reign of terror among people in the Enzo-spending price bracket? Were the few financially overextended collectors weeded out? Or does the upcoming Enzo replacement have collectors clamoring for the big four in the hopes of making Ferrari's coveted "ask" list?

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post #2 of 31 Old 01-05-2012, 05:34 PM
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The 599 GTO is 550K

The Enzo is worth triple all day long - especially if it puts you on the list for the latest and greatest super car.

Being on the list is a 500k gift minimal.

Modern cars are rarely going to hold value - if there is one to pull it off it's going to be a Ferrari super car especially one named after Enzo.
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post #3 of 31 Old 01-05-2012, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
 
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The 599 GTO is 550K
Those who flipped their GTOs will not be invited to be considered for future limited edition Ferraris. However, every owner who kept his GTO will not necessarily be invited either.

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The Enzo is worth triple all day long - especially if it puts you on the list for the latest and greatest super car.

Being on the list is a 500k gift minimal.

Modern cars are rarely going to hold value - if there is one to pull it off it's going to be a Ferrari super car especially one named after Enzo.
So do you think that's it, Doug? Is the Enzo that powerful at the poker table of cards to be holding when the factory comes-a-calling? Hell, if that's the case, then it's even easier for people to understand my obsession. But is it really that simple?

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post #4 of 31 Old 01-05-2012, 05:52 PM
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It is for me - people who collect know they have to pay to move to the top of the list.

Lets' face it - collectors are wealthy and cars are a small ticket in the big picture of toys.

I could not have flipped the GTO I was offered - which is why I don't own one. It bothered me to be tethered to a cash deal ... I was naive and it should not have bothered me.

I think all special Ferrari's have gone up across the board - 288 and so on.

The Enzo replacement will be the last of the 12 cylinder Super Car!
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post #5 of 31 Old 01-05-2012, 06:57 PM
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Doug, Carbon- They are building a list of super collectors/customers in Maranello to whom they want to sell the very limited edition cars. If you are not on the list or a serious collector, buying an Enzo now is not going to help. One reason they like those people is they never quibble on price because, frankly, those collectors just do not care. Those customers are also pretty good at displaying the cars to max advantage for Maranello.

Remember the FChatter who whined because he never had a shot at an Aperta? He will never have a shot at the Enzo replacement, either, because he is not on the radar screen.

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post #6 of 31 Old 01-05-2012, 07:24 PM
 
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oh yeah Carbie, forgot to mention...I bought four Enzos last month.

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post #7 of 31 Old 01-05-2012, 07:36 PM Thread Starter
 
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Doug, Carbon- They are building a list of super collectors/customers in Maranello to whom they want to sell the very limited edition cars. If you are not on the list or a serious collector, buying an Enzo now is not going to help. One reason they like those people is they never quibble on price because, frankly, those collectors just do not care. Those customers are also pretty good at displaying the cars to max advantage for Maranello.
Touche, Terry, thank you; facts and a point of view I had not considered. So, from that angle, can you provide some speculation as to the recent upshift in the Enzo market?

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post #8 of 31 Old 01-05-2012, 07:37 PM Thread Starter
 
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oh yeah Carbie, forgot to mention...I bought four Enzos last month.

I'll be honest, Chas, this does not surprise me one bit.

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post #9 of 31 Old 01-05-2012, 07:43 PM
 
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I'll be honest, Chas, this does not surprise me one bit.
it's for my new TV show, Dukes of Hamptons.

they'll all be painted Rosso Dino with a giant colonial flag on the roof.
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post #10 of 31 Old 01-05-2012, 10:17 PM
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So why the sudden increase in prices, and the subsequent lack of availability? With an increase in prices, you'd think more people would be willing to sell. Has the economic meltdown of recent years finished its reign of terror among people in the Enzo-spending price bracket? Were the few financially overextended collectors weeded out? Or does the upcoming Enzo replacement have collectors clamoring for the big four in the hopes of making Ferrari's coveted "ask" list?
Very different situation in the UK/Europe. Plenty of Enzos on the market (at least 2X the F50) and prices are down several hundred K from where they were a few years ago.

Regarding the list for the Enzo replacement, the only people guaranteed a car are those that bought a new FXX from the factory. I also doubt buying a bunch of Ferraris now will have any impact on how Maranello views your suitability for the coverted ask list. They are looking for long term loyal Ferrari collectors who will hold on to and enjoy the car.
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post #11 of 31 Old 01-06-2012, 02:41 AM
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Very different situation in the UK/Europe. Plenty of Enzos on the market (at least 2X the F50) and prices are down several hundred K from where they were a few years ago.
That is interesting and surprising to me. I would have thought that the Enzo market would be a global one. Surely a serious buyer would not limit their search to one continent?

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post #12 of 31 Old 01-06-2012, 04:36 AM
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Doug, Carbon- They are building a list of super collectors/customers in Maranello to whom they want to sell the very limited edition cars. If you are not on the list or a serious collector, buying an Enzo now is not going to help. One reason they like those people is they never quibble on price because, frankly, those collectors just do not care. Those customers are also pretty good at displaying the cars to max advantage for Maranello.

Remember the FChatter who whined because he never had a shot at an Aperta? He will never have a shot at the Enzo replacement, either, because he is not on the radar screen.
I remember the thread - slightly upset and I don't blame him.

Two people I know feel they are in contention for making the list on the replacement.

One owned an FXX and has pretty strong ties to Maranello - but sold the FXX.

The other has owned a few new Ferrari's and carries an enormous amount of weight in the automotive procurement world.

In brief conversation they both are "building resumes" for the replacement.

The whole idea behind the "in list" is to inspire - IMO it's working.
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post #13 of 31 Old 01-06-2012, 04:48 AM
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Carbon, i'm going to need more data than one pristine car being listed for 1.45m. The question is what did it sell for and will it be repeated. Even if the average for a clean one was 1.2 and probably one of the best sold for around 1.4 i don't see a trend. i am no enzo expert, but it seems enzo's have been hanging around 1m, give or take 20% for many years.

With all the recent super cars in the 700-1.2 range, i can think of at least three i would rather have. I agree with taz that buying a single enzo used will not put you on the radar for a new supercar, so that is not a motivator.

Having said all that, my ride in an enzo was very exciting and i think they should def stay strong and go up over time. They didn't make many.



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post #14 of 31 Old 01-06-2012, 09:56 AM
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That is interesting and surprising to me. I would have thought that the Enzo market would be a global one. Surely a serious buyer would not limit their search to one continent?

Enzo is very much a regional market due to tax and different safety regulations (EU vs US).
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post #15 of 31 Old 01-06-2012, 10:06 AM
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Enzo is very much a regional market due to tax and different safety regulations (EU vs US).
Wasn't aware of that. So a "cheap" UK Enzo would be prohibitively expensive to send stateside?

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post #16 of 31 Old 01-06-2012, 10:23 AM
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Carbon- Another factor is the world economy is looking up for the rich as well as the rest of us. There was probably quite a bit of pent-up demand that buyers were suppressing when they were not sure where their next million would originate. Jimmie is seeing that trying to find a good 288 GTO. Plus if the new Enzo comes out around $1M, that cannot hurt Enzo prices.

If I were speculating right now, the Carrera GT looks like a real bargain, even though I do not find it as attractive as any of the Ferrari supercars.

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post #17 of 31 Old 01-06-2012, 10:56 AM
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Carbon- Another factor is the world economy is looking up for the rich as well as the rest of us. There was probably quite a bit of pent-up demand that buyers were suppressing when they were not sure where their next million would originate. Jimmie is seeing that trying to find a good 288 GTO. Plus if the new Enzo comes out around $1M, that cannot hurt Enzo prices.

If I were speculating right now, the Carrera GT looks like a real bargain, even though I do not find it as attracive as any of the Ferrari supercars.
Terry I agree with that - at the end of the year car dealers were packed and next will be home buyers.

I heard the replacement is at 850k - who knows.

CGT is a great deal - but IMO so is the Scud ... way undervalued at 160k.
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post #18 of 31 Old 01-06-2012, 11:01 AM
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There is also another side of the super car purchase list, and that's the additional substantial cash payment that was required to get the Enzo!

I am certain there are few willing to pay out a large cash premium to purchase the vehicle unless there is considerable amount of disposable cash available.

I would bet this would apply to all future super cars.
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post #19 of 31 Old 01-07-2012, 01:27 AM Thread Starter
 
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That is interesting and surprising to me. I would have thought that the Enzo market would be a global one. Surely a serious buyer would not limit their search to one continent?
Barry, Boxer is correct; you can import an Enzo from the US to Europe, but not vice versa. Last I heard, Enzos cannot be converted to US specs - and if that's changed, then I'm sure it's pricey, not to mention a depreciation nightmare.

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Carbon, i'm going to need more data than one pristine car being listed for 1.45m. The question is what did it sell for and will it be repeated. Even if the average for a clean one was 1.2 and probably one of the best sold for around 1.4 i don't see a trend. i am no enzo expert, but it seems enzo's have been hanging around 1m, give or take 20% for many years.
Yes, it sold for the asking price of $1.45MM (which I think is insane). The seller was firm as he didn't need to sell, and someone eventually came around. It was on the market for under a month. In the last few months - especially back in September and October - Enzos were available, and buyers were being choosy. As of two weeks ago, the buyer's itch is stronger, and availability has evaporated. The only Enzo for sale right now is the silver one in Newport Beach, and the unanimous answer to the "why isn't this selling" question seems to be its "high" mileage.

Indeed it's too soon to tell if this will be the new trend. But I definitely see an anomaly in Enzo market behavior compared to six, nine, and 12 months ago. And I engendered it to the replacement speculation, because that's a proven trend with other cars. I see an influx in F430 Spiders on the market now that the 458 Spider is about to hit shores; same thing happened with 360 Spiders when the F430 Spider was on its way, same thing happened with the 355 Spiders when the 360 Spider was on the boat, etc.

Lastly, the Enzo market has had odd peaks and valleys. I can think of a few cars that have been repeatedly up for grabs over the years, that have seen nearly half a million dollars in asking price differences - but without the damage or mileage difference to effect such drastic changes.

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post #20 of 31 Old 01-09-2012, 04:07 AM
 
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I personally find it very interesting considering the global economic situation yet Rolls Royce, Bentley, BMW, Mercedes-Benz posted some of their highest sales ever in 2011. Rolls Royce sold 3,538 cars last year, up 31% from 2010 and the most they've EVER sold in 107 years. Bentley sales were up 37% to 7,003 in 2011, and BMW and Mercedes-Benz fought for first place luxury brand for 2010 citing some of their highest sales volume ever.

I don't have line of sight into Ferrari sales but I read a good article on WSJ personal finance a few months ago citing a number of investors moving out of the markets and into more solid investments...which would be what? Mortgages are shot, bonds are not a good option as governments teeter on bankruptcy, and equities oscillate daily. It's interesting then, that a number of financial advisers are recommending the purchase of collectible cars. Sounds almost counter-intuitive considering that most luxury, exotic and collectibles are considered a luxury good from an economic standpoint, so I would see almost a sell-off of these types of cars, but the opposite is happening. There are more investors looking for a safe place to put their money. Investing in the right car can yield the best return on investment over other options, and that is probably why the demand for the Enzo has shot up so much lately.

On top of that, considering the timing of the Enzo production, the recent announcement of the Lamborghini Sesto Elemento, Mercedes' SLS and various other smaller mfg hypercars, I believe that it's about time that Ferrari announced the Enzo successor. I've seen rumors circulating over the past year that 2012 might be the year we'll see one.
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