COP's for 3x8's - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 29 Old 11-29-2013, 05:27 PM Thread Starter
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COP's for 3x8's

Hello John,your suggestion to try Prius COPs was spot on.The length is perfect and the seal on the round top is so tight I don't think I will bother providing a boltdown as OEM has.They are 4 wirie,cost $20ea w/ connector on ebay.I am wiring up my Haltech e11V2 and Im going batch fire injection. John,from left to right I have B/W,,,,,,B,,,,Y,,,,,,R,,could you help me wire these cops. Many Thanks,,rege
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post #2 of 29 Old 11-30-2013, 02:41 AM
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Reg, I moved your post & started a thread for you in the 3x8 section, so that other V8 owners could benefit from your work.

To wire up these coils we have to know a couple of things:

1. Coil Fitment: You obviously have this sorted now, and the Prius coils do fit OK

2. Cylinder Numbering: See below and advise me if it's correct (As you know, I'm a V12 guy, not a V8 guy)

3. Firing Order: Again, please confirm what I show below is correct

4. ECU Ignition Capabilities: I'm assuming your Haltech only has 4 ignition outputs which, for a V8 engine, means you have to resort to a waste spark system. Please confirm your Haltech only has 4 ignition outputs?

5. Coil Pinout: The Prius coils are a "smart" design, meaning they have onboard ignitors, so we'll run a common +12 "rail" to all, and a common earth (ground) rail to all, then we'll pair up the trigger (ignitor) inputs.

Waste spark firing means that we pair certain cylinders and wire their coils together so that they fire at the same time. One coil fires on the compression stroke for one cylinder, while the other fires on the exhaust stroke for the other cylinder. Next rotation of the engine it's reversed.

So here's the Cylinder Numbering in your car, I think:




And the Firing Order:




And here's a wiring diagram of the Prius coils from Toyota. The colors aren't the same as the cut pigtails that you have, but the terminal numbers are shown, and that's what's important. This is the pinout of these coils when looking into the coil connector. Make sure you're clear on this - we're looking into the COIL connector, not the pigtail. Toyota are very good about marking the terminal numbers on their connectors, so look closely and you'll find them:

Pin 1: +12v
Pin 2: Not Used (this is the IGF, which Toyota uses for diagnostics)
Pin 3: Trigger (This is the pin used to charge/trigger the coil)
Pin 4: Earth




Next post I'll show you how to wire the coils up.

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #3 of 29 Old 11-30-2013, 04:27 AM
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Here's a wiring diagram for the coils. Note the pairing of the coil trigger pins (#3) for cylinders 1&4, 2&3, 5&8, and 6&7. This gets it wired correctly, but you'll need to ask Jack about the programming of the Haltech. I've never worked with one, and could probably stumble through it, but he's already done his, and might have a setup that would work for you.


'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #4 of 29 Old 12-01-2013, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
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Thank You

John,you are 100% correct,#1,the coils are an excellent tight fit.#2 Cyl #s,correct,,#3 Firing order ,correct,, #4 Correct 4 outlets on Haltech ,,I have just one question for now,,I looked closely @ all my coils and not one has any marking,,in pic #1,from left to right Ive got W/b,,,W/blue,,,,Y,,,R..So is the R on the far right on the plug,the 12V+,,Y,,,not used,,,,W/blue stripe,,,trigger,,,,W/black stripe,,,Earth ? Heres a recent shot,,,Many thanks to you John and FerrariLife.
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post #5 of 29 Old 12-01-2013, 05:35 PM
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Reg, here's a diagram I made years ago for the Tundra coils (and the troublesome Beru ones for the Porsche / Audi applications)

I don't know if this is correct for your Prius coils, but Toyota are pretty consistent in their numbering conventions.

Note: this is looking into the coil connector, not the harness connector.
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'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

Maranello Skunkworks Team Member
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post #6 of 29 Old 12-01-2013, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
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Yes Sir,Correct

Thanks for making this so clear and easy to understand,,,I understand the wiring very well now...The Haltech wire harness is very well marked and quite simple to wire,,I guess Im going to install the ecu,, etc,,where the digiplex were....Should I soldier? I like to soldier and heat shrink....Im going to use the oem air filter and top and make a big CF box underneath,,,,,.also,,,,for pre-oiling,,, Im mounting and fitting the 3qt accusump ,,,,vertically,to the right of the drivers side gas tank,,,,,I eliminated the fuel accumulator and am working on converting that part of the gas pump bracket to support the accusump.,,,,,,,,Thank You for sharing your professional expertise...Grazie
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post #7 of 29 Old 12-02-2013, 01:50 AM
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Reg, you're welcome; and that's what this place is all about: sharing of knowledge & experience so others can benefit.

There's two camps on the issue of soldering vs crimping for automotive applications. I don't want to start a holy war on the topic, but I'm firmly in the crimping camp.

BTW, you might want to give some thought for the future on coil hold downs "just in case". It's amazing what constant low level vibration can do to a fitment that seems tight, and those flat plane V8's aren't known for being smooth runners

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #8 of 29 Old 12-02-2013, 08:45 AM
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John- Affirmative, USAF would not allow soldering on aircraft because the connections vibrated and broke.

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post #9 of 29 Old 12-02-2013, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cribbj View Post
Reg, you're welcome; and that's what this place is all about: sharing of knowledge & experience so others can benefit.

There's two camps on the issue of soldering vs crimping for automotive applications. I don't want to start a holy war on the topic, but I'm firmly in the crimping camp.

BTW, you might want to give some thought for the future on coil hold downs "just in case". It's amazing what constant low level vibration can do to a fitment that seems tight, and those flat plane V8's aren't known for being smooth runners

Solder v Crimp

I think in many cases it should come down to whichever the installer is most capable of.

I know people who can't solder to save their lives and the same goes for crimping. Both actually work fine in an application like this if performed correctly.

While I agree that in a perfect world crimping is better, especially if performed by machine, I seldom see a job like this where the person performed them well and consistently throughout the job. If you can, it is the way to go.

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post #10 of 29 Old 12-09-2013, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
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dummy has a few questions

John,mechanics like me really appreciate engineers....concerning the cop hold downs,,.,,easy way is grinding steel nuts to correct height and JB weld them to the alloy cam covers,,,or,,,would I get better stick if I make alloy hold downs that have an interference fit on the cop,,but are still JB welded? #2,,the cop wires are very small guage,,not sure of size.The haltech loom is a tad larger,,does it matter which size wire I use for the +12V cop loop?,,,,Im going to crimp and shrink wrap all connectors,,Im mounting the ecu where the MM DigiPlex were and not going to trim the harness just in case I can substitute the mk e product.,,,,,,The 3qt accusump will be mounted vertically above the feul pump and feed a welded 10AN bunge on the oil filter tower....The air box top/filter will be OEM and custom CF from there,,,huge box over the exhaust,,,w/a bmw chamber type deal,,,Im making cardboard bucks.,pics will come,,grazie John

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post #11 of 29 Old 12-10-2013, 12:48 AM
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Reg, I can understand you not wanting to weld, drill or tap the valve covers; if JB Weld is your chosen way, then I'd think you'd probably get better "stick" with alloy holddowns - the aluminum will probably have a more porous structure than the steel. Obviously be sure that both surfaces are mechanically roughed up then cleaned with the usual nasty stuff that does the job. But if the JB Weld doesn't work out for you, it's not that tough to restore a set of valve covers that have been welded on previously if the underlying aluminum is decent quality.

The +12 and earth "rails" are the ones that will be carrying the load, and will probably be seeing between 10 and 15 amps continuously per side, so I would ensure that they're at least 16 if not 14 gauge Tefzel, or a similar type of conductor.

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #12 of 29 Old 12-10-2013, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
John- Affirmative, USAF would not allow soldering on aircraft because the connections vibrated and broke.
I think it depends on the age of the plane. When I was in I soldered for weeks at times on occasions.....because I was about the only one in the shop who could do it properly! this was mid '80s and the planes were late '50s vintage mostly. After 30 years there was lots and lots of solder on those puppies

...most of it bad!
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post #13 of 29 Old 12-10-2013, 04:35 PM
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Looking good Reg!

Any thoughts on when it might Run?
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post #14 of 29 Old 12-10-2013, 08:38 PM Thread Starter
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LD is the Master

Boss,Im all on the details and I wont give up,,,grazie
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post #15 of 29 Old 12-11-2013, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cribbj View Post
Reg, I can understand you not wanting to weld, drill or tap the valve covers; if JB Weld is your chosen way, then I'd think you'd probably get better "stick" with alloy holddowns - the aluminum will probably have a more porous structure than the steel. Obviously be sure that both surfaces are mechanically roughed up then cleaned with the usual nasty stuff that does the job. But if the JB Weld doesn't work out for you, it's not that tough to restore a set of valve covers that have been welded on previously if the underlying aluminum is decent quality.

The +12 and earth "rails" are the ones that will be carrying the load, and will probably be seeing between 10 and 15 amps continuously per side, so I would ensure that they're at least 16 if not 14 gauge Tefzel, or a similar type of conductor.
Yes Sir,,I like fat ground and power wires. Thank You
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post #16 of 29 Old 12-17-2013, 07:28 PM Thread Starter
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QA1 on 47407 eye bushings

Hello,I went to install QA1 on Pats qv and the QA1 eye bushings are just 1.250 wide,,,stock koni are 1.800,,,The oem koni eye bushings are an interference fit,,,the QA1 eyes are too narrow,,by .550in,,,Ive read that QA1 just bolt in but I don't think so....The QA1 eye insert is 1.250 long,,,oem is 1.800,,,So I need a .750od..510id ss tube 1.800 long w/ .275 alloy spacers on each side that are .750id and 1.25 od ?? capeche? grazie Pro's
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post #17 of 29 Old 12-17-2013, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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pic of koni/qa1 shock eye

Ive never seen this mentioned but the QA1 eye is too narrow by .550,,,say hey Hans,,grazie
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post #18 of 29 Old 01-09-2014, 02:18 PM
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How do I miss all this stuff?? Someone needs to teach me what to look for on the forum.

Reg your not that far away if I can offer any assistance load it up and come and visit for a few days, I have room for you and your car.

Here is a picture of some covers I made for COP back in the 90s, its for a 2 valve motor but if you increase the stud height of some of the cam cover studs you cam make something simular and it will hold down the COP's and cover up all the wiring.
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A bunch of stuff.

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post #19 of 29 Old 01-09-2014, 02:44 PM
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Jack, I just put this shortcut: http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/search.php?do=getnew in "My Favorites" so it logs me in & brings up any new posts since the last time I logged in.

I don't think it's smart enough to bring up "all" new posts if there are several new ones in the same subforum - it only brings up the newest one, so it's not completely foolproof, but it's good enough for this fool

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

Maranello Skunkworks Team Member
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post #20 of 29 Old 01-10-2014, 03:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cribbj View Post
Jack, I just put this shortcut: http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/search.php?do=getnew in "My Favorites" so it logs me in & brings up any new posts since the last time I logged in.

I don't think it's smart enough to bring up "all" new posts if there are several new ones in the same subforum - it only brings up the newest one, so it's not completely foolproof, but it's good enough for this fool
I just did the same thing. Thanks!

A bunch of stuff.
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