Photos of a "naked" 308 frame? - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 12 Old 08-12-2013, 07:09 AM Thread Starter
 
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Photos of a "naked" 308 frame?

Does anyone have photos of a naked 308 tube frame?
I'm curious... I suspect that the degree of triangulation is "not much", but having actual photos of it would be good.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 12 Old 08-12-2013, 04:22 PM
 
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post #3 of 12 Old 08-12-2013, 09:45 PM
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Awesome pic's , haven't seen those before !!
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post #4 of 12 Old 08-13-2013, 03:48 AM
 
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Not mine, just stuff I scavenged off the net over the years.
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post #5 of 12 Old 08-13-2013, 03:58 AM Thread Starter
 
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Yes, thanks very much!

"Triangulatsi? What iz that?"

Are there structural differences between the GTS and GTB cars?

It looks like on the GTS cars, the entire structure under the floorpan is 3x 3" (4"?) tall oval tubes and some crossmembers. Yikes... Although it looks like there may be more structure in the sills than that, it's tough to tell.

Are actual torsional stiffness measurements for the 308 frame posted anywhere? Does the body help any in the steel bodied cars?

Is the blue one getting a 288 GTO conversion?
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post #6 of 12 Old 08-13-2013, 07:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedmade View Post
Not mine, just stuff I scavenged off the net over the years.
Very cool. Thank you for posting. I have been interested in seeing the frame as well.

The blue/white car looks like it has a roll "bar" installed. I've wondered what / if there was roll-over structure in the back of a GTS. Still an open question.

1983 308 GTS Quattrovalvole
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post #7 of 12 Old 08-13-2013, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Side of Will View Post

Is the blue one getting a 288 GTO conversion?
It looks like a rally spec conversion to me.
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post #8 of 12 Old 08-13-2013, 09:12 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Brian A View Post
Very cool. Thank you for posting. I have been interested in seeing the frame as well.

The blue/white car looks like it has a roll "bar" installed. I've wondered what / if there was roll-over structure in the back of a GTS. Still an open question.
It looks like it's getting door bars and a dash bar also, although they look fairly small compared to what I'm used to seeing used for cages.

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Originally Posted by mk e View Post
It looks like a rally spec conversion to me.
Is "rally spec" a formal "thing" or just a cage installation? (IE, what groups were the cars rallied in historically?)
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post #9 of 12 Old 08-13-2013, 10:55 AM
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Is "rally spec" a formal "thing"
Yes, group B.

Only fiberglass cars where homologated and there is a place in Europe that still builds cars to the offical spec...for buckets of money......
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post #10 of 12 Old 08-19-2013, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Side of Will View Post
Yes, thanks very much!


Does the body help any in the steel bodied cars?
Yes it does. The lightest frame on a 308 is the one used for the euro steel 308 gtb. It's even lighter than the glass cars chassis

Quote:
Originally Posted by mk e View Post
Yes, group B.

Only fiberglass cars where homologated and there is a place in Europe that still builds cars to the offical spec...for buckets of money......
The place in in Finland ( company called MAT) and they built probably a better car than Michelotto ever did. But indeed they are expensive. For a full rebuild with all details correct, count on way over 250K US$ as a starting point.... ( no lie!)

One small remark about homologation. Not only the glass cars where homologated.
The only real distictive is the engine: Only dry sumped 308s are homologated, regardless of the material of the body.

currently a '87 euro 328gts, a '83 euro 308gts and 2x 308gtb. (and still some old Audi's)
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post #11 of 12 Old 08-19-2013, 10:40 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Yes it does. The lightest frame on a 308 is the one used for the euro steel 308 gtb. It's even lighter than the glass cars chassis

The place in in Finland ( company called MAT) and they built probably a better car than Michelotto ever did. But indeed they are expensive. For a full rebuild with all details correct, count on way over 250K US$ as a starting point.... ( no lie!)

One small remark about homologation. Not only the glass cars where homologated.
The only real distictive is the engine: Only dry sumped 308s are homologated, regardless of the material of the body.
Interesting tidbit about the frame... I wasn't aware there were different frames for different models...

Is there structural steel in the roof in the GTB's or just the sheet metal?
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post #12 of 12 Old 08-21-2013, 09:43 AM
 
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will

Yes I recall the GTS have thinker side rails along the rockers and the bulkheads has additional members that the GTB dosent have. There is a 20 or 25mm steel roof rail on the GTB’s and some rectangular cross member for the header on top of the windshield


The blue rally car is either a micholotto GR4 or some sort of tribute replica. Easier to to tell it it had a motor because most of the replicas don’t run with a kugelfishcer. You can see in the photo how the rear upper forward pick up points are floating in mid air leaves a lot to be desire. This area wasn’t reinforced or triangulated most likely for maintenance access for the pulleys in front or the clutch on the otherside. The rally cars typically have a bolt-on or welded in cross member to reinforce this area ( it that what the extra tab is for on the blue chassis. From the top of my head I remember there are also additional triangular members added to the rear most trunk bulkhead, main bulkhead and from the door jam to the front sub-structure. These micholotto rally cars doubled up the members underneath the flying buttresses. The whole rear fenders can be pulled off with deuz type fasteners for quick access as you can see.


the blue car is not a Gr B car but a GR4 type car. Later GR B cars were 4 valve cars with steel bodies. Although GR B regulations were more open to modifications the 308 GR B were a lot closer to a stock car than the GR4 cars i.e. narrow bodies, CIS injection etc... the 288gto was built to group B specs as If memory serves. We that’s another story…
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