Carb Intake Manifold Compatibility - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 84 Old 04-12-2013, 09:46 AM Thread Starter
 
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Carb Intake Manifold Compatibility

Hi all,
Was wondering if a carb intake manifold would physically fit on a QV motor?
I know the obvious difference at the head/manifold interface, i.e., round on carb motor, oval on QV.
But would a carb manifold physically bolt to a QV head?
Thanks
Jeff
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post #2 of 84 Old 04-12-2013, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilkrod View Post
Hi all,
Was wondering if a carb intake manifold would physically fit on a QV motor?
I know the obvious difference at the head/manifold interface, i.e., round on carb motor, oval on QV.
But would a carb manifold physically bolt to a QV head?
Thanks
Jeff
No. The flange is very different and at a different angle ....11 deg on a qv and 45 deg on a 2v if memory serves me.

There wasa place in Ox that had QV carb intakes available at one time...Frank Cappo I think? ....but I don't if they still do.

A 2v carb intake could probably could be converted by cutting off the flanges and welding on new ones which sounds way worse than it is.
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post #3 of 84 Old 04-15-2013, 05:11 AM
 
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fomula gt in germany sells a weber kit with manifold for both qv 3.0-3.2 motors.. they are not dcnf's but the more performance oriented IDF types if memory serves..
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post #4 of 84 Old 04-15-2013, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by raging soul View Post
fomula gt in germany sells a weber kit with manifold for both qv 3.0-3.2 motors.. they are not dcnf's but the more performance oriented IDF types if memory serves..
IDFs are much taller than dcnf's and won't fit under the stock deck lid I don't think.
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post #5 of 84 Old 04-15-2013, 09:18 AM
 
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formula GT - TUNINGTEILE

you would probably need a Gurney hump on the deck for your stacks.

basically one of the drawbacks of the 308...not that the deck lid is too low but that big heap of a motor is mounted way too high!

cheers

rs
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post #6 of 84 Old 04-15-2013, 03:38 PM
 
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Get the manifolds from the place in Germany and then EFI using these throttle bodies. They are shorter than the IDF carb.

TWM-Throttle Bodies-2930 Series IDF
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post #7 of 84 Old 04-15-2013, 09:13 PM
 
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nice...now that would be a set up!
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post #8 of 84 Old 04-16-2013, 04:32 AM Thread Starter
 
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All Set!!!

All,
Thanks very much for the input.
I contacted Formula GT, and will be ordering a set of their intake manifolds.
Will be going with Jenvey IDF throttle bodies, height should not be an issue.
I was really stuck on this project, without a manifold I was done.
Will also convert to carb cams while doing this project.
I promise to take pics as I am ordering parts, will be pulling the motor to start service, removing CIS stuff.
By the way this is the 3rd car I have converted from CIS to EFI. 1st was Lotus Turbo Esprit, 2nd Porsche 944S. Have always used MegaSquirt for ECU, never a problem.
Thanks again for the help
Regards
Jeff
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post #9 of 84 Old 04-16-2013, 04:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilkrod View Post
All,
Thanks very much for the input.
I contacted Formula GT, and will be ordering a set of their intake manifolds.
Will be going with Jenvey IDF throttle bodies, height should not be an issue.
I was really stuck on this project, without a manifold I was done.
Will also convert to carb cams while doing this project.
I promise to take pics as I am ordering parts, will be pulling the motor to start service, removing CIS stuff.
By the way this is the 3rd car I have converted from CIS to EFI. 1st was Lotus Turbo Esprit, 2nd Porsche 944S. Have always used MegaSquirt for ECU, never a problem.
Thanks again for the help
Regards
Jeff

cool ! please keep us posted on the conversion. i thought about doing this to my g-bod esprit also. pretty straight forward with the dellorto manifolds right? is there a preference between jenvey and TWM other than cost?


regards

rs
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post #10 of 84 Old 04-16-2013, 05:12 AM
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I can't wait to see it!


Quote:
Originally Posted by wilkrod View Post

Will also convert to carb cams while doing this project.
There are no OEM QV carb cams?

or do you mean you'll be buying something aftermarket?


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Originally Posted by wilkrod View Post
Have always used MegaSquirt for ECU, never a problem.
YUK!

You REALLY want move to sequential injection....it makes a pretty big difference at low power.

The MS3 isn't too awful bad but still doesn't have the built quality, accuracy or tuning resolution I think you'll want. I know they're cheap but you get what you pay for and there are so many really good ecus out there for a V8 application.


If cost is the main thing, I'm working on an open source ecu:

http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/pr...build-ecu.html
forum.open5xxxecu.org - Index page

The first run of hardware is nearly ready, very high quality, about 100 times the processing power of anything MS and will retail for $500. Depending on your project timing I've talked the HW guy into offering a beta program where you get a 30% rebate if you actually install the test the thing which will drop the price to $350....that CHEAP! I expect theses to be available in about 1 month and the beta program to last 2-3 months
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post #11 of 84 Old 04-16-2013, 10:40 AM
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Mark- You think it is going to be tough getting those two valve carb cams to work with the quad valve head?

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post #12 of 84 Old 04-16-2013, 01:15 PM
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Mark- You think it is going to be tough getting those two valve carb cams to work with the quad valve head?
Nothing a little welding won't solve
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post #13 of 84 Old 04-16-2013, 02:54 PM
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Wow. Just found this thread... needless to say I'm looking forward to pics!

For what it's worth, there was a gent running carbs on a silver QV years ago. I think they were DCNFs. It was a really pretty car - 360 wheels, euro bumpers, etc.
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post #14 of 84 Old 04-16-2013, 03:47 PM
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For what it's worth, there was a gent running carbs on a silver QV years ago. I think they were DCNFs. It was a really pretty car - 360 wheels, euro bumpers, etc.
They were/are IDFs and he just joined f-life
http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/fe...nned-life.html

Russ Tuner did 44mm dcnfs on a 3.2 mondial using the cappo intake.
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post #15 of 84 Old 04-16-2013, 04:49 PM
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They were/are IDFs and he just joined f-life
http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/fe...nned-life.html
.
Wow, small world! I didn't want to say Paul's name as you never know who wants to stay anonymous on the sites. I still have pics of his car on my C: drive... must be ten years old.

Great to see him back. Now we just need to get him to start a thread in the tech section!
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post #16 of 84 Old 04-17-2013, 03:42 AM Thread Starter
 
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Lol

Ok, of course I ment aftermarket cams if available.
The CIS cams are really not suited for use with EFI.
Hopefully I will find something out there.
But then again I am pretty handy with the welder.
The Esprit was a relatively easy conversion, used an intake manifold from an 89 which was Delco injected, wiring, ECU (MS3) was easy.

I never engage in "discussions" regarding which hardware is better or worse, every one has particular needs, constraints, preferences.

I always build my own MS3 so quality is not an issue, and I find the performance fits my requirements to a T.

By the way if I haven't mentioned the car is an 83 Mondial coupe, black, 17,000 mi. (yeah, sure).

So since I have no service records, I will be doing a complete recomissioning, engine out service, clean up, new fuel,oil, water hoses, brakes as needed, and whatever else pops up.

I will order the manifold next week as I expect it to be long lead item, other components as they come up in the schedule.

Thanks again to everyones input, and I will post pics as I make progress, but be patient, this is my after work/family hobby.

Regards
Jeff
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post #17 of 84 Old 04-17-2013, 05:51 AM
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Ok, of course I ment aftermarket cams if available.
The CIS cams are really not suited for use with EFI.
Hopefully I will find something out there.
The stock cams aren’t horrible in the the QV. It’s the same exactly gring they used in the 2V engines….and it’s horrible in a 2v, but for a 4v its ok.

The 328 intake cam has more lift and works a bit better.

The 348 cams have a bit more lift and duration and work better yet…..and they are really right at the limit of where you want to go lift wise with the shim on bucket design.

Web has some nice option that will put you in the .377ish 348 lift but with more aggressive or longer duration lobes…..but it’s about $100/lobe to have stock cams welded and reground.

You also run straight into the head intake flow as the main hp restriction……..


Quote:
Originally Posted by wilkrod View Post
I never engage in "discussions" regarding which hardware is better or worse, every one has particular needs, constraints, preferences.

I always build my own MS3 so quality is not an issue, and I find the performance fits my requirements to a T.
My concerns with MS3 are:

1) The hardware component and assembly are not automotive grade and that is what I meant be quality. If everything is solders well, the jumpers all secured and the unit installed in that dry and temp stable place then it’s probably fine and I know lots of people use them. The new MS3 pro solves all this but comes with a $1200 price tag too.

2) The bigger issue I have it the 16x16 tables. I’ve just never been able to get a performance street engine running the way I like them running with only 16 rpm points to work with…right around 30 is where I usually end up when it’s all said and done. This has nothing to do with making hp really….it’s about drivability. I usually burn 4-8 rpm points just in the crank and idle range then another 2-4 on the off-idle transition and that only leaves 4-10 points for the whole rest of rpm range. 10 will usually work ok, but 4’s just not enough so you end up really needing to think about where to put points and whether you can live without it…which seems silly to me whether 32x32 has been industry standard for 15 years and the top shelf unit had it 25 years ago and offer more today (although I’ve personally never needed more than 32)
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post #18 of 84 Old 04-18-2013, 04:03 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for Cam Info.

Mark,
Thanks for the cam info, cost/benefit may not be worth the trouble of changing cams.
Agree with your comments about the limitation of 16 X 16 tables, not ideal, but tolerable for me.
The MS 3 is capable of sequential injection, though I have not used it yet, on the list for this project though.

Addinig some pics of the Mondial, and the Esprit, the Porsche is being striped down to be rebuilt as my track toy.

Regards
Jeff
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post #19 of 84 Old 04-18-2013, 05:41 AM
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Nice looking garage

Great looking cars

Love the stickers on the tool box and lift
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post #20 of 84 Old 04-18-2013, 04:30 PM
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Nice looking garage is right. Man, you've got it figured out!
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