328 pulley/damper slot for key malformed - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 16 Old 06-19-2012, 12:16 AM Thread Starter
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328 pulley/damper slot for key malformed

I had a bad metallic click on the codrivers side of the engine. First I found out the alternator had a worn out bearing. First I thought that was caused from the broken tube for the fresh air on the backside of the alternator. It wasn't getting fresh air from under the car. It was open very close to exhaust and therefor breathing very hot air. However - this assumption was wrong.

While cleaning everything in there I noticed the puller/damper is not sitting firmly on the crank. the big screw (the one you need a 36mm tool) wasn't tight. The key was close to complete break. The slots for the key on the crank and the pulley are quite a bit larger now. I can change the pulley (oops, expensive part), but how do I get the slot on the crank repaired?

I googled that there are some things like loctite 3478. Is that a good idea? Is there any good experience with glueing keys?

Kind regards Christian
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post #2 of 16 Old 06-19-2012, 01:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mehl View Post
I had a bad metallic click on the codrivers side of the engine. First I found out the alternator had a worn out bearing. First I thought that was caused from the broken tube for the fresh air on the backside of the alternator. It wasn't getting fresh air from under the car. It was open very close to exhaust and therefor breathing very hot air. However - this assumption was wrong.

While cleaning everything in there I noticed the puller/damper is not sitting firmly on the crank. the big screw (the one you need a 36mm tool) wasn't tight. The key was close to complete break. The slots for the key on the crank and the pulley are quite a bit larger now. I can change the pulley (oops, expensive part), but how do I get the slot on the crank repaired?

I googled that there are some things like loctite 3478. Is that a good idea? Is there any good experience with glueing keys?

Kind regards Christian
you can buy a new better damper from nick forza, but if the key sit loose on crank you have big problem, you need to remove crank and make new slot
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post #3 of 16 Old 06-19-2012, 08:50 AM
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If I was looking for a quick fix I would have a new key machined slightly larger,so I would measure the crank keyway and machine a new one for it.
The harmonic damper and crank are normally a friction fit so make sure that they are not loose now.
Putting a locking agent on the fastener is unusual so I would not be able to recommend anything in that regard.
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post #4 of 16 Old 06-19-2012, 09:49 AM
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If I was looking for a quick fix I would have a new key machined slightly larger,so I would measure the crank keyway and machine a new one for it..
+1

This is where I would start too.
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post #5 of 16 Old 06-19-2012, 10:04 AM
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Wow, I would think that the slot in the crank to be of a really hard material. As the guys have said its easy to mill down a larger key to make it fit.
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post #6 of 16 Old 06-20-2012, 02:31 AM
 
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My first attempt at repair would be a new balancer & key. Bolt it on with proper torque and see if it holds. If you don't want to risk a new balancer start with a new key on the old one with a tight bolt and see if it holds well. Then put on the new one and go enjoy your car. Don't use locking compound, you will damage the pulley if you need to get it off again. ( You will need to get it off again some day). If it does not hold then the crank comes out and you machine a slot 180 degree out and put it all back together.
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post #7 of 16 Old 06-20-2012, 09:16 AM Thread Starter
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My idea was glueing the key to the crank, as it will be difficult to build a key which is a close fit to the slot in the crank. I'll try to make a foto of the slot.

For sure I will not glue the pulley to the crank.

As the pulley/damper is rather expensive, I thought about cutting a new slot in the pulley at 180°.
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post #8 of 16 Old 06-20-2012, 09:43 AM
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Christian, I've used Belzona Super Metal to repair a sloppy key/keyway on a large (5000 HP) industrial pump where we didn't have onsite capability to machine a new keyway, and a new shaft/cartridge assembly would have cost in the high six figures. That was five years ago, and AFAIK, that pump is still in service.

Remachining a new keyway is, of course, the correct solution for your problem, but I would still consult with Belzona about this as it might allow you to defer the correct (and much more expensive) course of action until you're ready to do it.

Belzona 1111 Super Metal

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #9 of 16 Old 06-20-2012, 07:20 PM
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this is a common problem on miata's. my dad had this problem and the shop recommended pulling the crank. not necessary. i bought the car from him for $600 and my mechanic fixed it quite easily. The larger key is not the answer. fix the key way. My mechanic took an hour and built up with tig welding then ground down back to shape. all with the crank in the engine and the engine in the car. he then put the pully on and drilled two holes for set screws to grab the end of the crank. Been fine through some very spirited driving for over 5 years now. only cost another $600 to boot. I'm sure mark could easily do it for you.



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post #10 of 16 Old 06-21-2012, 04:04 AM
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For sure I will not glue the pulley to the crank..
If it looked like the oversize key wasn't going to work, I would glue on the pulley in a heart beat. Locite lets go at 242F but the nose of the crank shouldn't be that hot in use, but getting that hot for disassemble shouldn't damage anything.

The most important point with any of these solutions is that you write down what you did and why so you or the next person knows how to service it.
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post #11 of 16 Old 07-02-2012, 12:44 AM Thread Starter
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And here some pics of the scene. Malformed slot:

Malformed Key:


Old & new slot in pulley:


I glued the key to the shaft with loctite (thank you marc for the hint it will let go at 242F). I replaced the leaking seal behind the pulley and boltet it all together. After a 1h test drive everything still tight and dry.
I document everything: I'm writing a very detailed log for all my cars.
Attached Images
         

Last edited by mehl; 07-02-2012 at 01:14 AM. Reason: pics did not upload
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post #12 of 16 Old 07-02-2012, 03:11 AM
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I bought some of that belzona 1111 after watching the videos and experimented with it over the weekend. I can assure you it will work, I have never seen anything like this product. It will not take very much for that little job, if you decide to use belzona 1111 I would be happy to mail you enough to do that small job. I would make a key out of plastic, glue it on the shaft then remove it and put the metal key in its place after it gets hard.
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post #13 of 16 Old 07-02-2012, 05:24 AM
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I bought some of that belzona 1111...
What's it like to work with? Is it a liquid that hardens quickly? Is it a two part epoxy?

I'm interested as well. I hate welding aluminum stuff on the block, etc. as it always pulls. I know Mark is a pro and manages around this, but a really good epoxy would be a great way to seal in -AN fittings that are threaded into the engine sump, for instance.
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post #14 of 16 Old 07-02-2012, 09:17 AM
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What's it like to work with? Is it a liquid that hardens quickly? Is it a two part epoxy?

I'm interested as well. I hate welding aluminum stuff on the block, etc. as it always pulls. I know Mark is a pro and manages around this, but a really good epoxy would be a great way to seal in -AN fittings that are threaded into the engine sump, for instance.
Bret this stuff gets steel hard in about 40 minutes at 90 F outside, its two part but mixes 3 o 1. The metal part has some type of metal in it I believe. If you you tube it you will see them building up shafts for machinery and then turning them down on a lathe. I have an area which I took photos of that split on the frame, I can get to the top and one side easy with the tig but the bottom will be a bear so I plan on using this with a metal patch on top. Watch the video, its amazing stuff.

Sorry for thread drift.
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post #15 of 16 Old 07-02-2012, 06:06 PM
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The videos on youtube are pretty darn cool indeed. Good to know. Looks like you can even get it on ebay.

NEW BELZONA SUPER METAL BASE & SOLDIFIER PART No. 1111 | eBay
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post #16 of 16 Old 07-02-2012, 06:41 PM
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It is indeed amazing stuff. We used it in Algeria for building up shafts, restoring pump volutes that had been eaten away by corrosion/erosion/cavitation, and we've repaired the floors of crude and water storage tanks with it.

It's the closest thing to miracle metal repair I've ever seen/used. Puts JB Weld to shame.

All of Belzona's products are excellent.

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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