348 engine into BMW E30 convertible - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 16 Old 03-20-2012, 09:21 PM Thread Starter
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348 engine into BMW E30 convertible

Looking to fit a F V8 into a BMW E30. I kneed to know if anyone has done an engine swap like this and what direction the engine turns. i was thinking a Getrag 265 geabox with a dogleg and 1:2 top gear. The car has a 4.3 rear end so should make it silly fast its currently a 2.0 in line 6, auto.
I really like the idea of a small V8 180 degree crank and compact light weight engine. There is a 348 motor floating around here in aus so may come together? Any thoughts and ideas would be great. in the end it may not go ahead, but the car is mint, but just does not have any go, and after running around in the TR I need more.
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post #2 of 16 Old 03-20-2012, 11:11 PM
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Maybe it would be easier to fit the BMW E30 body on a 348 chassis? Just kidding

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post #3 of 16 Old 03-21-2012, 02:41 AM
 
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I'm merely a lurker so feel free to ignore but wouldn't it be far easier to drop a BMW unit in there..?

The S62 from the E39 M5 could be made to fit fairly easily, it would give you just short of 400 BHP without changing any internals and it sounds fantastic.

An alternative route is that the M50 Blocks shared the dimensions of the M20 that will be in your E30 at the moment, so it should be a straight swap for an S50B32 (fitted to the E36 M3, the M roadster and the M Coupe) which would give you a healthy 317bhp with no uplift in engine mass...
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post #4 of 16 Old 03-21-2012, 02:49 AM
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If you have the appetite for it do it.

The motor will fit and running a dry sump you should have zero cross member clearance issues which you will have by running any of the BMW V8s.

Your weight will also be just behind the front axle line so you will have pretty much 2 BMW 4 cylinders in terms of location in the engine bay.
Exhaust manifolds will require some clever fabrication to avoid sharp bends as they exit the heads.
Sounds like a good project.
If you decide to go ahead with it photos would be most welcome.
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post #5 of 16 Old 03-21-2012, 03:49 AM
 
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I have been working on a similar project for about a year. I am mating a 348 motor to a T5 transmission to mount into a front engine - rear wheel drive application.
The biggest challenge so far is the flywheel, bell housing, and starter. Once I solve that part, I can start the process to mock the motor and trans into the chassis.
Of course, there will always be the joy of building my own headers, and making the injection work with the car.

Before anyone asks, I will be creating my own build thread here. I was just waiting until the snow melted to get out and take some more pics.
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post #6 of 16 Old 03-21-2012, 09:20 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input guys, The S62 is a big heavy lump and does not have a flat plane crank, so will never sound like a Ferrari. The S52/54 all have been done and like a1exander said, the motor will be well back in the chassis. Could make an exposed gate for the shifter and get rid of the rubber in the oem bmw shifter, maybe bend the gear stick like the Testa? I am a BMW Tech by trade and like the brand, but the F engine is just magic. Speedmade, what chassis? Swap ideas?? Yes i will start a thread if i go ahead. first must finish my H2 post classic race bike to keep the wife happy. One project at a time.
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post #7 of 16 Old 03-22-2012, 12:16 PM
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Andy- If you do make the swap make sure either the engine is either easy to pull or you can change the rubber cambelt without removing the engine. Needs to be done every 3-5 years.

You can download a 348 workshop manual at ferraridatabase.com. Will give you an idea of what is involved in maintaining a Type F119D engine.

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post #8 of 16 Old 03-22-2012, 01:43 PM
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This seems like a lot of work to end up with something rather odd, blasphemous really.

Why not keep the 348 engine in a 348? or if you want more seats why not a 456 or 400?

Why not have a flat crank and matching cams made for the BWM engine which just bolts in?

If it's all about the sound then why not make up a set of headers with 180 degree pulses groupings?
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post #9 of 16 Old 03-22-2012, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedmade View Post
I have been working on a similar project for about a year. I am mating a 348 motor to a T5 transmission to mount into a front engine - rear wheel drive application.
The biggest challenge so far is the flywheel, bell housing, and starter. Once I solve that part, I can start the process to mock the motor and trans into the chassis.
Of course, there will always be the joy of building my own headers, and making the injection work with the car.

Before anyone asks, I will be creating my own build thread here. I was just waiting until the snow melted to get out and take some more pics.

kind of took the thoughts out of my mind: There are easier engines to adapt than the 348 style. Side note: Look fwd to your adaptation thread.

I agree with the above of dropping a better BMW in there but if you have the skills and ills: go for it.

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post #10 of 16 Old 05-03-2012, 03:44 AM
 
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Go for it, i have done many swaps, like V8's into 240z's, MG's etc, have the fun is going to the bone yard and finding the components to mate up with. Nelson Race Engines did a beautiful 1500 hp twin turbo V8 in the an RX7 ( a real beast ) go to his NRE site. Other websites have already do chevy swaps into BMW and have nutted out alot of issues already which you can short cut some of the engineering. Let google do the leg work.
Enjoy the challenge but don't cheap out, hire out machinist's and good welder fabricators if you are not top notch. Otherwise it will not be accepted and defined as a rolling joke.
Good luck and keep the others informed on your progress should you go that route.
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post #11 of 16 Old 05-03-2012, 05:37 AM
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Andy, another engine option (and probably a lot cheaper than the 348 lump) is the 4.0 liter aluminum Lexus engine. It's DOHC, 32 valves, six bolt mains, forged crank, shim adjustable bucket type lifters riding directly on the cams, etc. All the good stuff for making fairly high rpm power.

But it does not have a flat plane crank, and its firing order is the same as the SBC, so it does tend to sound like a SBC at idle and up to about 3500. After that it definitely has its own exhaust note.

These engines are dirt cheap, and IIRC this swap has already been done, right there in Oz.

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post #12 of 16 Old 05-03-2012, 10:12 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks fo rthe input, I have been think about a BMW 6 cylinder lately, but the 348 is still the most interesting. The SBC and Lexus/Toyota have all been done many times and BMW V8 is just as hard to get in the car. The 348 is a little smaller and lighter.
As it is a convertible, outright HP and torque is not that important (will just twist the chassis) so now back on the 348 engine thing. just looking for bits atm. I have Finished my Kawasaki H2 race bike so the other half is feeling better about another project. I think i want a Getrag 265 dogleg box for it.I can then make an exposed gate or maybe use a TR gate. I love the exposed gate, I made one for my Datsun about 22 years ago.. Should take the power and has a bolt on bell housing so maybe a little eaiser to fit to the 348 block.
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post #13 of 16 Old 05-04-2012, 04:51 AM
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Top down driving with the sounds of a Ferrari engine all makes good sense too me.

Best of luck.
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post #14 of 16 Old 05-04-2012, 05:52 AM
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well sounds like you made your decision . what is your next step on acquiring a 3.4, 348 ? I am still most curious on how are you gonna do the transmission.

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Last edited by Granucci; 05-04-2012 at 10:58 AM.
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post #15 of 16 Old 05-25-2012, 04:44 AM
 
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The E30 V8 swap using a BMW V8 is comparatively easy...
Use the 4.4 litre shortblock from an OBDII M62 with the timing drive, heads and top end from an OBDI 4.0 M60. Use the 5 speed ZF trans from an E34 530i and the whole combo almost bolts together, using engine mount brackets from www.300mm.de . The brake booster has to be dealt with, but you'll deal with that with any V8 swap.

The above engine combination will yield 320-340 HP with very little tuning or additional work... but it won't rev or sound like a Ferrari.

It's YOUR car, build what makes you happy.
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post #16 of 16 Old 07-06-2012, 12:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaos Andy View Post
Looking to fit a F V8 into a BMW E30. I kneed to know if anyone has done an engine swap like this and what direction the engine turns. i was thinking a Getrag 265 geabox with a dogleg and 1:2 top gear. The car has a 4.3 rear end so should make it silly fast its currently a 2.0 in line 6, auto.
I really like the idea of a small V8 180 degree crank and compact light weight engine. There is a 348 motor floating around here in aus so may come together? Any thoughts and ideas would be great. in the end it may not go ahead, but the car is mint, but just does not have any go, and after running around in the TR I need more.
Now that I've had a little more time looking at the 348 powertrain I bought for my 308, I think I see some potential sticky areas.

While the Dino engine is smaller than the M/S62, it's still a DOHC V8 and the left cylinder head will still interfere with the brake booster and linkage.

The 348 engine has a dry sump system. This means that the sump is very shallow. While it is possible to fit the engine very low in the body, you won't be able to in the E30 due to the location of the front suspension crossmember.

Also because it is dry sumped, it will need a high capacity external oil cooler and external oil tank. This will take up a lot of space in the very small E30 engine bay.

The 348 did not have power steering, so there is no power steering pump. A V8 E30 without power steering will not be easy to steer. The Mondial T's have power steering... you *may* be able to source the bracket, accessory drive and PS pump from one of those, but you're probably better off just making it from scratch. If your car doesn't have A/C (or if you don't want it) you can probably mount the PS pump in place of the A/C compressor.

The 348 exhaust headers simply will not fit in the E30 engine bay. You'll have to fabricate headers from scratch. You will need to build long tube headers in order to preserve the 180 sound you want.

Break break

Because you'll have to build long tube headers anyway, use the BMW V8 and build "crossover" headers with 180 degree collectors. Two cylinders from each bank feed each collector in this arrangement. It gives the same exhaust sound as conventional headers with a 180 degree crankshaft, but without the 180 degree crankshaft. Youtube "180 degree headers" for some examples of sound clips. This layout was used on the original Ford GT40's and is common on GT40 replicas.
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