Crimp or Solder ??? - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 16 Old 09-24-2011, 12:09 AM Thread Starter
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Crimp or Solder ???

Good article in this month's RET-Monitor about crimping vs soldering, and the author's own preference - both: Solder or crimp? л RET-Monitor

RET (Race Engine Technology) is a great, if expensive, nearly monthly, rag from the UK, and RET-Monitor is a database of short tech articles (sometimes only commercial marketing/advertising thinly disguised, but still interesting)

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post #2 of 16 Old 09-24-2011, 11:45 AM
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John- That pretty much lines up with what the USAF does on electrical connections on aircraft. Solder joints are much more likely to break in high NVH environments.

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post #3 of 16 Old 09-24-2011, 12:04 PM
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I've had similar experiences with the racecars. As much as I like to solder and heat shrink everything I have had breakages right next to the solder joints. I think if I have the room to really do a good job of stress relieving the joint I prefer solder but crimping does seem to be the way to go. Unfortunatly it can be hard to tell if you have a good crimp and they do seem more prone to corrosion. On some applications I've put RTV over the ends of the crimp to keep them clean.

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post #4 of 16 Old 09-24-2011, 01:00 PM Thread Starter
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I thought the author's "belt & braces" approach was interesting. Putting a dab of solder at the first crimp for the best possible contact, then using the 2nd crimp for the usual mechanical strain relief. That way, there's nothing but flexible, non-tinned solder coming out of the connector.

Best of both worlds?

The problem he didn't adequately explain is how to prevent the copper in back of the first crimp, and possibly the 2nd, from wicking the solder, tinning itself, and rendering the conductor in back of the 2nd crimp, rigid and subject to failure.

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post #5 of 16 Old 09-24-2011, 01:54 PM
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I learned (and still practice) to properly crimp the connector, lightly solder it afterwards (so lightly that you can see the strands of wire still, they're just silver colored) followed buy a properly sized shrink wrapping, covering the entire crimp/soldered portion of the terminal and 1/8-1/4" of the jacketed wire. I feel that in automotive conditions this technique covers all of the bases of secure and pretected connections.


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post #6 of 16 Old 09-24-2011, 05:02 PM
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Josh- The environment in an aircraft is way worse than in a car, so that technique should work fine.

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post #7 of 16 Old 09-25-2011, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSofVirginia View Post
I learned (and still practice) to properly crimp the connector, lightly solder it afterwards (so lightly that you can see the strands of wire still, they're just silver colored) followed buy a properly sized shrink wrapping, covering the entire crimp/soldered portion of the terminal and 1/8-1/4" of the jacketed wire. I feel that in automotive conditions this technique covers all of the bases of secure and pretected connections.
I do the same, but give it a bent after solder and before crimping the insulation to be sure the solder isn't wicked up the wire....it's pretty obvious when it has when you make the bend.
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post #8 of 16 Old 11-21-2011, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSofVirginia View Post
I learned (and still practice) to properly crimp the connector, lightly solder it afterwards (so lightly that you can see the strands of wire still, they're just silver colored) followed buy a properly sized shrink wrapping, covering the entire crimp/soldered portion of the terminal and 1/8-1/4" of the jacketed wire. I feel that in automotive conditions this technique covers all of the bases of secure and pretected connections.
Long term practice of mine as well... The most important piece is to use a good and more importantly, PROPER, crimping tool. So many folks entering the DIY realm are using the type that just mash both sides of the terminal. It'll work, but it won't give a lasting mechanical/electrical connection.

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post #9 of 16 Old 11-21-2011, 03:40 PM
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Long term practice of mine as well... The most important piece is to use a good and more importantly, PROPER, crimping tool. So many folks entering the DIY realm are using the type that just mash both sides of the terminal. It'll work, but it won't give a lasting mechanical/electrical connection.

Rick

What about a set of Vise Grips?


A good set?

Last edited by Brian; 11-21-2011 at 03:47 PM.
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post #10 of 16 Old 11-21-2011, 03:46 PM
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Crimping has proven superior in so many controlled tests it ain't funny.

Terrys example is all we really need to know and a solder joint is just not required for a good current path.

Also it has been shown conclusively that star washers on ring type connectors are counterproductive to a good connection.

Car manufacturers study this stuff to cut warranty costs and airplane companies study it to reduce smoking holes in the ground. Doing it their way is never a bad idea.
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post #11 of 16 Old 11-21-2011, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ramosel View Post
Long term practice of mine as well...
Hey Rick, good to see you back around. Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention, but I hadn't seen a post from you in awhile... An odd coincidence, but this afternoon I was wondering how you're doing lately.

I usually solder when doing something on the bench - I make sure to not let the solder wick past the edge of where the heat shrink will go to in the case of a splice, and not past the end of a connector when attaching one of them.

I usually crimp when doing something in the car. Just too much of a pain to solder in weird, contorted positions.
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post #12 of 16 Old 11-22-2011, 08:34 AM
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Hey Rick, good to see you back around. Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention, but I hadn't seen a post from you in awhile... An odd coincidence, but this afternoon I was wondering how you're doing lately.

I usually solder when doing something on the bench - I make sure to not let the solder wick past the edge of where the heat shrink will go to in the case of a splice, and not past the end of a connector when attaching one of them.

I usually crimp when doing something in the car. Just too much of a pain to solder in weird, contorted positions.
Thanks Bret, I bought a new house up in the mountains and its been kicking my butt getting it Ferrari Ready. OK, Actually I bought a 2500sq/ft garage with nice house attached. Keegan found the book Ferrari sends to its dealers about how to paint and furnish the dealership shops... so naturally I had to jump into that feet first. Should have it done, clean and usable in a few weeks. The head injury just makes everything 3 times longer than I think it should be.

Agree completely on the soldering/crimping. A lot of folks like to throw around the aerospace crimp only method... but you have to realize the connectors and crimping tools they use are a far cry from the blue/red crimp on connectors you pick up at the local hardware store. I have a whole drawer in my tool box crammed full of crimping tools from years doing harness work at jobs I can't talk about. By all rights I should probably keep them in the gun safe... there is easily $20K worth of crimping tools to do mil-spec electronics work. Short of that, your method (Mark's & Josh's) is a very good one that I follow too. Sometimes I'll even reverse it and tin the ends of the wire then crimp depending on the application and operating environment.

Rick

Last edited by ramosel; 11-22-2011 at 08:52 AM.
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post #13 of 16 Old 11-22-2011, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian View Post
What about a set of Vise Grips?


A good set?
RifleDriver, You always make me laugh... in a good way. And sadly, I've seen it done that way.

I thought I responded to this... maybe the the mod thought I was being rude and not just bustin' your chops.

Anyway, I spoke to Keegan and he says you don't even have a good set of vice grips...

Last edited by ramosel; 11-22-2011 at 08:58 AM.
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post #14 of 16 Old 11-22-2011, 08:49 AM
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Crimping has proven superior in so many controlled tests it ain't funny.
Very true! in most cases. But most of the aerospace studies were done with wire/sleeving/connectors and tools of a completely different breed.

I made a couple of high silver, high strand count, harnesses that are a now a couple of billion miles from here... they were definitely crimped and soldered.
AMP makes a really cool rig now that lets you crimp and spot weld in the same action!!! But I think I'd rather have a Bridgeport for the money.

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post #15 of 16 Old 11-22-2011, 08:50 AM
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You make me laugh... and sadly, I've seen it done that way.

I thought I responded to this... maybe the the mod thought I was being rude and not just bustin' your chops.

Anyway, I spoke to Keegan and he says you don't even have a good set of vice grips...


His contract says he cant say bad stuff about me for another year.


Tell him he'll be hearing from my lawyer.
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post #16 of 16 Old 11-23-2011, 09:04 AM
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His contract says he cant say bad stuff about me for another year.

Tell him he'll be hearing from my lawyer.
He's still sick, bad cold... but he said to tell you he's moving before your lawyer can find him.
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