Designing a modern 275..... - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 316 Old 02-12-2011, 06:53 AM Thread Starter
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Designing a modern 275.....

I mentioned this project might happen in another thread and it is currently moving forward so I thought I'd start a thread for it.
The concept for the project is to design a modern version of a 275. Not a copy or replica, but something with a strong family resemblance that uses modern materials, components (like a 456, 550, 575, 599, 612 family engine), and design elements. The reason for the project is that while cars today are very good, they've gotten big and heavy to comply with this law or that regulation and have lost something ....simplicity or maybe their rawness....something as a result.

A spoke to a buddy of mine , Dave, who's quite good with CAD and and a bit artistic about the project and he signed on almost before I finished telling him what I was thinking. A couple days later I got a PM from another guy, Michael, offering help with the sketching/concept/design part.
So the current team is:
engineer-me
CAD guy-Dave
artist/designed -Michael
I'm calling it a design project for the time being for a couple reasons. The first is....my V12 308 project and an electric car project need to be finished before anything else comes into the shop. The second is I'm not 100% sure this is a good idea in that just the act of messing with a timeless shape like the 275 might lead to a bunch of ideas on how to make a 275 look bad and nothing that actually looks good....it's a pretty high standard and there is a LOT of prior art out there.

I just got the first round of concept sketches from Michael and over-all I'm liking them. Unfortunately since they are early rough sketches he's asked me not to make them public so you guys will have to wait for round 2 when the main ideas are collected on 1 or 2 cleaner sketches......then I'll ask again about posting the early ones so you can see the idea evolution process.

Sketches are the first step, then a small physical model will probably be made to help visualize everything. Then the model will be 3D scanned and dumped into the CAD software and the engineering part of the project will begin. Once all that looks good I'm hoping the 308 will be wrapped and I can move on to building cars.

More to come.
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post #2 of 316 Old 02-12-2011, 08:55 AM
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Something along these lines would be very nice!
YouTube - 2011 Ferrari 612 GTO
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post #3 of 316 Old 02-12-2011, 08:56 AM
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Mark, this'll be a super build to follow. Very best wishes and good luck with it!

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #4 of 316 Old 02-12-2011, 09:38 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Davison View Post
Something along these lines would be very nice!
YouTube - 2011 Ferrari 612 GTO
Along those general lines but softer, smaller and none of the GTO touches. I'll have some sketches I can post soon hopefully.

It will be near the 275 wheel base of 94.5", we may to up to 96"-98" maybe and a width around 72" and the weight target is 1500-2000lb I think vs a 599 that is up at 108.3"/77"/3700lb
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post #5 of 316 Old 02-12-2011, 10:27 AM
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Mark,
I think it might behoove you to go to Carlise Pa. to the Kit Car and Import show in May. A good resource for talking to builders (and potential buyers if you ever decide to make available for others), also for all those bits and bobs that you're going to inevitably need.
Carlisle Import and Kit Nationals - British, French, German, Swedish, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Collector, Performance, Parts, Accessories
Not so much for the Import stuff, but there are many replica builders that show their best stuff there..i.e. Factory Five, Superformance, Racecar Replicas etc.. (GT 40's, Cobras, LoLas etc.. REAL replicas down to the inch). A lot more real automotive and racing stuff than the ubiquetous Fiero rebodies (tho there will undoubtably be more than a few there).

If nothing else it's a good place to see other peoples car building techniques as the major manufactures have been building for years and have tremendous experience to draw upon. They bring in there best examples, both fully built AND raw frolling chassis and frames.

JD

Last edited by Jeff Davison; 02-12-2011 at 10:35 AM.
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post #6 of 316 Old 02-13-2011, 12:35 AM
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Which model do you intend to use as a donor?
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post #7 of 316 Old 02-13-2011, 03:42 AM Thread Starter
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Which model do you intend to use as a donor?
I don't think "donor" is really the right word since very little will be retained.....I think what we're talking about is digging up a few salvage yard parts vs a donor car.

The plan is to use the 456/550-599/612 65* V12, but I'm sure other options would also work.

I haven't decided about a transaxle but probably the same as the engine.

The rest.....no idea yet. The V12 car parts would be to big and heavy for this application.
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post #8 of 316 Old 02-13-2011, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk e View Post
So the current team is:
engineer-me
CAD guy-Dave
artist/designed -Michael
Well, count me in then. You know you will need a comedian on board to break up the day.
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post #9 of 316 Old 02-13-2011, 02:44 PM
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Are you looking for a few others to join the team? I recently had an email exchange from someone that might be interested in helping if they are a good fit.
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post #10 of 316 Old 02-13-2011, 03:32 PM Thread Starter
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Are you looking for a few others to join the team? I recently had an email exchange from someone that might be interested in helping if they are a good fit.
It's a very large project so help is always welcome....all it pays is use of the molds/fixtures to build one for yourself.

Dave Michael and I had a long chat today and Michael is now off and running on round 2 sketches and says he'll make sure at least some are post quality.

The side profile is looking good I think and will be the combination of stuff from 3 of the round 1 ideas. There's still some confusion about the front and rear, the front in particular but Michael says he can bang out several ideas pretty quickly to start the conversation.....I'm feeling pretty good about things so far though.
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post #11 of 316 Old 02-13-2011, 03:34 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Davison View Post
Mark,
I think it might behoove you to go to Carlise Pa. to the Kit Car and Import show in May. A good resource for talking to builders (and potential buyers if you ever decide to make available for others), also for all those bits and bobs that you're going to inevitably need.
Carlisle Import and Kit Nationals - British, French, German, Swedish, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Collector, Performance, Parts, Accessories
Not so much for the Import stuff, but there are many replica builders that show their best stuff there..i.e. Factory Five, Superformance, Racecar Replicas etc.. (GT 40's, Cobras, LoLas etc.. REAL replicas down to the inch). A lot more real automotive and racing stuff than the ubiquetous Fiero rebodies (tho there will undoubtably be more than a few there).

If nothing else it's a good place to see other peoples car building techniques as the major manufactures have been building for years and have tremendous experience to draw upon. They bring in there best examples, both fully built AND raw frolling chassis and frames.

JD
You've been living the custom car life for some years now so I guess I'll have to trust you on that one
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post #12 of 316 Old 02-13-2011, 03:36 PM Thread Starter
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well, count me in then. You know you will need a comedian on board to break up the day.
lol
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post #13 of 316 Old 02-13-2011, 05:27 PM
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Sort of on/off topic, but I ran across these photos of the Porsche 918 RSR hybrid concept. It's a stunning car that has all the aspects of a modern, 21st century design, without looking like it just popped out of a Tron movie. It still retains beautiful rounded curves, but no one could mistake it for anything else but a Porsche. IMO, the car has no bad angles.

I think these are the qualities that will make a car like this become an instant classic, and I hope Mark & his team can put together something that will be equally as modern looking, but still retain enough Ferrari DNA that it'll be instantly recognisable for what it is.







Here's a link to the main page on Autoblog.com with resizable pix: Porsche 918 RSR -- Autoblog

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #14 of 316 Old 02-13-2011, 07:50 PM
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From the Drawing Board....

Cribbj...

I would agree with you, this latest Porsche is their best effort in a long time. Good automotive design consists of the blending of three elements: proportion, surface and detail, which are built one atop the next. This Porsche is very well proportioned, has nice surface development and purposeful, yet well integrated details.

It would be great to post a transcript of our meeting today because our discussion for what Mark and I want this car to be reflect everything you mention. When we both stop and think about what we are attempting it seems well, a bit insane. But after giving it some considerable thought, I presented a direction to Mark and Dave that allows us to walk that thinnest of design lines, classic, contemporary, modern yet elegant. It's going to take some time but we hope to have something when we are done that will be truly inspiring, at least to us. Thanks for your post.

M
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post #15 of 316 Old 02-14-2011, 12:50 PM
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I bet S. McGee would have some interesting imput. I like some of his work.

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post #16 of 316 Old 03-25-2011, 04:31 AM Thread Starter
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A quick like update.

The project design guy, Michael (Designstar), has been very busy and just hasn't had a lot of time to put into the concept work recently. He did send me some front-side views last night that I really like so things are moving forward, but we're still not at the point where I can share without getting me scolded I don't think....so please be patient with us, I promise it will be worth the wait
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post #17 of 316 Old 03-25-2011, 09:54 AM
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456[gt] is almost a bargain at today's prices. Wouldn't bother with the M series as a 550 is a bit better in performance price.

599/612 are still a bit pricy.

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post #18 of 316 Old 03-25-2011, 10:14 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granucci View Post
456[gt] is almost a bargain at today's prices. Wouldn't bother with the M series as a 550 is a bit better in performance price.

599/612 are still a bit pricy.

I'm not sure I understand this post??? engine prices or car prices?

Last edited by mk e; 03-25-2011 at 11:49 AM.
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post #19 of 316 Old 03-25-2011, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk e
The plan is to use the 456/550-599/612 65* V12, but I'm sure other options would also work.
Quote:
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I'm not sure I understand this post???

I was thinking you were obtaining a donor part as your other project and expanding on that: Guess you had something else in mind.

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post #20 of 316 Old 03-25-2011, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I was thinking you were obtaining a donor part as your other project and expanding on that: Guess you had something else in mind.
Yeah, this car will be 275 size, which is like 2/3 the size of the modern stuff so a modern chassis isnít of any use. Also Iím not a fan of rebodying in general anyway. This will use a salvage yard Ferrari V12 engine and maybe trans, but there probably isnít anything else on a modern V12 ferrari that will be of any help because they just donít fit the style/size Iím going for.

The body, chassis, interior will all be original designÖ.so this car wonít have a Ferrari badge on it anyplace but the engine. Iím thinking it will get one of my ďgemello cattivoĒ (evil twin) badges just like my 308 is getting (although that will also keep its Ferrari badge).

It will all come clear once I can share some of the concept drawings. Michael is quite a talented designer and is doing a great job turning the concept idea into sketches of a design. Itís elegant yet pretty mean frikin looking.
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