building my own trackcar - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 158 Old 10-13-2010, 09:17 AM Thread Starter
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building my own trackcar

Hi

I like to share my track car project with you all. I hope you do not mind my English, I'm Dutch.


After in 2007 I bought my 328. In the two year there after I did some regular tracking and than I realized that the car was actually to nice to be sent on the track regularly. I bought the car with only 23K km and when I bought it it was really like new. ( it basically still is btw)

The horrible thought of damaging it on the track made me realize that maybe I should considder another car for the track only. Also a Ferrari obviously!

So i went for the lookout for a rough but solid 308. After some search I ended up buying an old neclected & cheap ( I know, cheap ferrari's are an illusion)'78 US 308 gtb in September 2009
It came with a broken engine, seized brakes, gone suspension and a very rought interior.
So, in short, the perfect fit for my plans!

The car arrived in October 2009 and I immediately started rebuild.
First goal: get it roadworthy and licenced.
I did a complete rebuild of all mechanics and for about 4 months I spent many, many hours but eventually in Februar this year I had the car ready & tested and it passed the test flawlessly.

Second phase: started rebuilding it into a trackcar (but stil street legal so any testing could be done easily)
This phase is still going on ( and will be for some time...

At this moment the suspension is replaced with a fully adjustable semi race one, the ingnition by an Xdi, and I fitted the engine with a Turbo.
Meanwhile I started a seperate project to leightweight the car. This will include gft bumpers, hood, doors en rearlid. Most of the glass will be/is already replaced by polycarbonate.
The car will be fitted with a full rollcage, proper seats, harnesses etc etc. Futhrmore I will fit a complete F 360 brakeset on it.

I will keep you al informed on the further progress
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post #2 of 158 Old 10-13-2010, 12:57 PM
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Great project. Good luck and look forward to hearing about the progress.
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post #3 of 158 Old 10-13-2010, 08:04 PM
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Awesome, man. Looking forward to updates.

Which company is the suspension from? Do you remember what spring weights you're using?

Where'd you get the 360 brakes from? Ebay? There was a set on there similar to yours a few months ago. After they sold I sat here thinking, man, I really should have bought those.
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post #4 of 158 Old 10-14-2010, 03:38 AM
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Wish I could do even 10% of what you are doing!!

Good luck with the project, keep us informed....

Ferrari's: 360 Modena, 550 Maranello
Ex's: Dino 308 GT4, 612 Scaglietti
The Rest: Rolls Royce Silver Shadow, Porsche 911 2.7s, Porsche 911 3.2 Carerra, Ducati 916... and the Land Rovers
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post #5 of 158 Old 10-14-2010, 05:11 AM
 
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Great project. If you are looking for a great front hood that was from a 308 GTB track car . this work very well in cooling and front down force. Give me a call. Many new and used ferrari parts in stock.
Thanks
Alex.
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post #6 of 158 Old 10-14-2010, 08:50 AM
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Great project. If you are looking for a great front hood that was from a 308 GTB track car . this work very well in cooling and front down force. Give me a call. Many new and used ferrari parts in stock.
Thanks
Alex.
Interesting, how much?
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post #7 of 158 Old 10-14-2010, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
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Great project. If you are looking for a great front hood that was from a 308 GTB track car . this work very well in cooling and front down force. Give me a call. Many new and used ferrari parts in stock.
Thanks
Alex.
Actualy i'm pretty busy with this myself.

I made some first attempt but your look great as well. I made an inner box and I took the F40lm hood as a example.

it's not the final design yet but it getting close. I probably end up decreasing and reshaping the size of the square hole and skip one naca duct
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post #8 of 158 Old 10-14-2010, 09:47 AM Thread Starter
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Awesome, man. Looking forward to updates.

Which company is the suspension from? Do you remember what spring weights you're using?

Where'd you get the 360 brakes from? Ebay? There was a set on there similar to yours a few months ago. After they sold I sat here thinking, man, I really should have bought those.
I bought the set from Nick Forza. Good buy, nice guy and according to Nick far better quality than QA1's. Contrary to what's normally used Nick adviced 400 lbs for the back and only 200 for the front. Particularly those front ones were hard to except but I did follow his advice (buying another set if they would turn out sh*t was no brain breaker anyway) And now under the car I must say they perform great.

I bought the 360 brakeset from Ebay.uk. Price was reasonable and they came as a complete set ( only lacking the handbrake callipers). The disks are actually almost new but i think the rust kept other buyers away. Putting them on the 308 will be a nice project on itself I guess.
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post #9 of 158 Old 10-14-2010, 11:42 AM
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I bought the set from Nick Forza. Good buy, nice guy and according to Nick far better quality than QA1's. Contrary to what's normally used Nick adviced 400 lbs for the back and only 200 for the front. Particularly those front ones were hard to except but I did follow his advice (buying another set if they would turn out sh*t was no brain breaker anyway) And now under the car I must say they perform great.
200F/400R? All I can say is watch it!

I donít think you will ever be able to sort out the over-steer Iíd expect you to have with that set-up??? My car is 450F/400R and was a little low on rear grip relative to the front. Removing the rear sway bar got it pretty good (good enough for a couple autocross wins), but my plan was 25-50lb stiff front springs or 25lb softer rear to get the inherent balance better then start messing with the sway bars. Iím holding off making any spring changes until I see what the V12 weight does to thingsÖI suspect it will make the rear springs just about right as is.

Love the project BTW!
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post #10 of 158 Old 10-14-2010, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
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200F/400R? All I can say is watch it!

I don’t think you will ever be able to sort out the over-steer I’d expect you to have with that set-up??? My car is 450F/400R and was a little low on rear grip relative to the front. Removing the rear sway bar got it pretty good (good enough for a couple autocross wins), but my plan was 25-50lb stiff front springs or 25lb softer rear to get the inherent balance better then start messing with the sway bars. I’m holding off making any spring changes until I see what the V12 weight does to things…I suspect it will make the rear springs just about right as is.

Love the project BTW!

As said Mike, I was a bit puzzled myself about this advice. Nick however insisted on it. So since i'm not an expert in this area I choose to go with his advise. I will keep yours in mind too now
And, if in the end it won't work out well, a few new springs are easily installed.

About my project and just for your info and maybe some advice: my turbo is set at 7psi and I will take the car to the Dyno this weekend. I've Dyno it just before the turbo instal and came to a pretty nice 180.8 wheels BHp ( the car is a '78 US one which supposed to have 205/210 bhp)
I've set the ignition at 32 advance from 5K rpm on. What is your experience for advance with this pressure? To prevent high speed knocking do you are aware of any decent aftermarket knock sensing device (with some visual indication in the car) that acually works?


Furthermore, the power feels (beyond) great already but i'm pretty sure I read somewhere in one of your threads that a stock engine can last 9 psi without any trouble. Did I read correct ( or i'm I just dreaming)

I think I also read that the stock drivetrain can handle over 500 and that the cluch is working as a safetyvalve at about 450bhp. Again right?
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post #11 of 158 Old 10-14-2010, 01:06 PM
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About my project and just for your info and maybe some advice: my turbo is set at 7psi and I will take the car to the Dyno this weekend. I've Dyno it just before the turbo instal and came to a pretty nice 180.8 wheels BHp ( the car is a '78 US one which supposed to have 205/210 bhp)
I've set the ignition at 32 advance from 5K rpm on. What is your experience for advance with this pressure? To prevent high speed knocking do you are aware of any decent aftermarket knock sensing device (with some visual indication in the car) that acually works?


Furthermore, the power feels (beyond) great already but i'm pretty sure I read somewhere in one of your threads that a stock engine can last 9 psi without any trouble. Did I read correct ( or i'm I just dreaming)

I think I also read that the stock drivetrain can handle over 500 and that the cluch is working as a safetyvalve at about 450bhp. Again right?
32 should be ok with 7 psi I'd think on a 2V.

If you got 180 before, then the hp should be right about 260-280 at 7psi. 15psi is safe with a stock engine.....the valves start to float at about 18 everything else should work to the mid 20s. I ran my QV at 23-24 with new springs and slightly different rings I bought becasue they were way cheaper than stock.

I don't think the stock clutch will handle much over 300 crank HP...maybe 350 cHPbut I think that's really pushing it. I ran a daytona pressure plate wiht a kevlar disc wiht 350/360 cHP (300ish rwhp) with no problem at all...but that set-up only lastest through the mid use phase with the 550 cHP high boost engine.


what are you running for a fuel and spark systems?...controling fuel and spark make a big difference on how much boost the engine will handle.
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post #12 of 158 Old 10-14-2010, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
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32 should be ok with 7 psi I'd think on a 2V.

If you got 180 before, then the hp should be right about 260-280 at 7psi. 15psi is safe with a stock engine.....the valves start to float at about 18 everything else should work to the mid 20s. I ran my QV at 23-24 with new springs and slightly different rings I bought becasue they were way cheaper than stock.

I don't think the stock clutch will handle much over 300 crank HP...maybe 350 cHPbut I think that's really pushing it. I ran a daytona pressure plate wiht a kevlar disc wiht 350/360 cHP (300ish rwhp) with no problem at all...but that set-up only lastest through the mid use phase with the 550 cHP high boost engine.


what are you running for a fuel and spark systems?...controling fuel and spark make a big difference on how much boost the engine will handle.
'Mine is a 2v one, correct.

I'm I reading correct that 15 psi can be done on a further complete stock engine?? That's an awefull lot.. What kind of hp you got? and maybe more important, how long will it last?

I'm have an XDI ingnition which basically I specially bought for the turbo project ( please don't tell me I made the wrong choice, i'm pretty fragile)
Fuel over here is unleaded 95 or unleaded 98.
Normally i put 95 in my F cars but with the turbo I do considder 98 ( but I truly wonder what would be the real difference)

About any (fancy) controling of the fuel, well, none! The double barrel holley does it's job but that's all the control there is.
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post #13 of 158 Old 10-14-2010, 05:42 PM
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With a naturally aspirated 2v 308 engine I am running 35-36 degrees total ignition timing with 10.5:1 compression. You are smart by keeping it at around 32 for a boosted engine.
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post #14 of 158 Old 10-14-2010, 05:42 PM
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'Mine is a 2v one, correct.

I'm I reading correct that 15 psi can be done on a further complete stock engine?? That's an awefull lot.. What kind of hp you got? and maybe more important, how long will it last?

I'm have an XDI ingnition which basically I specially bought for the turbo project ( please don't tell me I made the wrong choice, i'm pretty fragile)
Fuel over here is unleaded 95 or unleaded 98.
Normally i put 95 in my F cars but with the turbo I do considder 98 ( but I truly wonder what would be the real difference)

About any (fancy) controling of the fuel, well, none! The double barrel holley does it's job but that's all the control there is.
Yes, yours is a 2V.

15 psi can be done on a stock engine with no worries. At 8-10 psi you will want to add an intercooler, but then you'll be fine. 95 was fine on the stock engine, but now that its boosted you'll want to stick to the 98 octane form now on. 15 psi will basically double the naturally aspirated hp. The very basic math it new hp=oldhp*(boost+15)/15. (14.7psi= 1atm=1bar...basically)

I am a big fan of fancy fuel/spark control. My favorite is the motec stuff, but there are lots of other options that will work fine on 90% of the set-ups out there like haltech and electromotive to name a couple. The XDI works and several have used it with boosted cars, but it's not on my personal favorite list for this type of application because I like a little more tuneability than it offers. Over the years I've learned that I'd much rather have features I don't use then want features I don't have.
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post #15 of 158 Old 10-15-2010, 05:43 AM
 
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Interesting, how much?
Hi guys, if anyone is interested on the front hood. please make me a an offer.
Here are some more pics of the track car. Full race motor with dry sump. Full race suspenion. Oversized brakes.
If anyone needs specs on a ferrari 308 or daytona race motor. i have the factory conpetizione manuals.
Thanks.
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post #16 of 158 Old 10-15-2010, 05:52 AM
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Very interesting how you are driving the oil pump off the emission exhaust cam extension. Clever. What sort of specs are on that engine? What'd ya do?

Sorry to derail the thread!
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post #17 of 158 Old 10-15-2010, 06:11 AM
 
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The engine has competition cams, over sized and dome pistons, race clutch and light flywheel, ignition system, larger valves, polished and ported heads , line bore black and heads , carello race rods, balanced complete engine , race valve springs, and more.
The engine revs up so quickly and car pulls to 9000 rpm.
Thanks.
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post #18 of 158 Old 10-15-2010, 08:07 AM Thread Starter
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The engine has competition cams, over sized and dome pistons, race clutch and light flywheel, ignition system, larger valves, polished and ported heads , line bore black and heads , carello race rods, balanced complete engine , race valve springs, and more.
The engine revs up so quickly and car pulls to 9000 rpm.
Thanks.

great car indeed, great spec as well! how many hp do you get?

I've been for the lookout of an aftermarket drysump for a while. Driving it from the airpomp shaft was in me mind as well. Can you provide some inside of how you did it?
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post #19 of 158 Old 10-16-2010, 09:57 AM Thread Starter
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so today i had my second dyno run


Before the instal of the turbo ( but after I put in the XDI) I had a first rn to set kind of a baseline.

At the wheel then came it to 180,8 bhp. Converted to crank according 17% rule a nice 211. Keep in mind the car is a late carbed US one so this result was fairly good.

today we went agan to mae the second run, the first run with the Turbo and it came to 240.8 on the wheels. Maybe somewhat dissapointing but i had my ignition on every conservative setting of 28 advance ( should be 32 but I chicked a bit after last drive when it seems you TOO quick. )

So I talked to the shop owner and we decided that best next step was to do some additional running to set the ignition to the best possible setting using his tools.

Unfortnately immidiate after we drove home some very minor noise ( kind of high bird kinda noise like tjip tjip tjip)) was there. Powers seems oke, water and oil no problem to so after a brief inspection we carefully drove home (about 10 mls)


The noise level increased during this drive. It frequency raise together with the increase of the revs but after a point it stops. It also stops after releasing the throotle pedal.
My first thought was a generator belt or the generator itself but currently me bets are on an exhaust issue. Esspecialy as after the dyno the car had some trouble starting but did eventally with a big bang. I hope it's just a gasket..

Anyway. I have to sort this out first before any other move.


the pictres shows 4 lines.

1 power now
2 power before turbo
3 torque now
4 toerque before turbo
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post #20 of 158 Old 10-16-2010, 10:07 AM
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Blown exhaust gasket likely..........

Have you checked it yet?

Better results may be achievable with the Motec or SA substitute Gotech systems,
http://www.gotech.co.za/
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