ITB's on QV - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 43 Old 10-02-2010, 05:56 PM Thread Starter
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ITB's on QV

Brett said it was too quite in the tech forum so here's some pics of my Hyabusa conversion. Sorry for the lighting, it doesn't show enough contrast so I'll have to post some pics going forward with more detail.

JD
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post #2 of 43 Old 10-02-2010, 07:22 PM
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wow. anything been done to this engine? Details!
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post #3 of 43 Old 10-03-2010, 06:03 AM
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Jeff, this motor is going to look and sound SWEEEEET!!!


Less time on audio stuff and more time in the engine department.

Last edited by Pizzaman; 10-03-2010 at 06:13 AM.
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post #4 of 43 Old 10-03-2010, 08:02 AM Thread Starter
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details:

The engine is basically stock. When the rings or valve guides start letting go I'll do a tear down and rebuild.

The manifold was a fairly simple affair to fabricate as well as spacing the ITB's. It's using the stock Hyabusa rubber connections to the runners as they are molded for the injector discharge angles and also using the stock rubber velocity stacks which also serve to hold the bottom plate of the air cleaner assembly. I have allowed enough clearence above and around the stacks for good airflow.

Throttle linkage was unbelievably easy. The Hyabusa uses a two cable system where one cable that pulls from the hand grip opens the throttle and the throttles have a return pull back to the hand grip. I simply used the return pull cable from one bank of the ITB's to the open linkage on the other bank. I had a custom cable / jacket /adjuster made up for around $50. No complex linkage / bellbranks etc. to make.

Each bank has it's own vacuum block where there is a take off from each ITB. Each sides vacuum block is connected to each other, so there is a very stable vacuum signal from all the ITB's that a M.A.P. sensor can take and to the fuel pressure regulator..

I made the air filters housings from 6mm anodized aluminum and used K&N airfilters that were originally designed for a Datsun 240z. The size was perfect. The stainless steel thumbscrew holdowns (and internal supports) were all off the shelf from McMaster-Carr.

I've allowed for the oil vapor from the canister to be vented back to the air cleaner assemblies and in one of them have an air temp sensor.

I will be using an external oil filter. In place of the Ferrari oil filter mount is a Lancia Thema 8.32 part with an AN-12 adapter.

The distributor drives are capped off with plates I had machined and the Aeromitive FPR is supported by a plate that is sandwiched between the end of the cam box and the machined cap.

I'm not going to "pretty up" the cam covers or belt covers. I like the look of the castings as is. The engine will be going into the Lancia Stratos replica I'm building and will be my track day and rally car. Looks more authentic this way. The raw castings give it that "race motor" look. Tho the air cleaners look maybe a little foo foo for a battle axe.

One more thing is that I'll be using Coil-On-Plugs in a wasted spark arrangement from the Motec ECU. I found the perfect length COP from a Suzuku motorcycle application (found on eBay for dirt) and some thick rubber gromets from McMaster.


JD


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wow. anything been done to this engine? Details!

Last edited by Jeff Davison; 10-03-2010 at 09:37 AM.
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post #5 of 43 Old 10-03-2010, 11:25 AM
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^ Awesome.

I'm certainly looking forward to seeing this one come together.
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post #6 of 43 Old 10-05-2010, 08:31 AM
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Jeff,
When you run this I would love to see a log of the MAP signal.

I got scared on my set-up and decided to just give each TB its own MAP sensor….probably overkill but with big TBS I wasn’t sure there would be much signal left using a canister set-up.

Also, have you decided how you are going to load sense? The Motec engineer I chatted with suggested TPS with the MAP sensor connected to the manifold instead of left open and that would let the software automatically get the best signal (TPS or MAP) without having to deal with trying to do a 4-D load map using both sensors. This seemed like a pretty good thought but it surprised me a bit since I’d never seen it done with other ECUs’/set-ups I’ve seen or worked on over the years. The Motec guys seem to prefer TPS in almost all naturally aspirated applications….other brands seem to all prefer whenever possible but the MAP compensated TPS sure seems like the best of both worlds without giving anything away.
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post #7 of 43 Old 10-05-2010, 05:26 PM
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Jeff, any shots of the car itself?
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post #8 of 43 Old 10-05-2010, 06:20 PM
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Oh yes, what a sweet engine!

With the snappy response from the Hayabusa setup maybe it would be a great match and even snappier with a lighter flywheel?

Please keep posting

Capo

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post #9 of 43 Old 10-05-2010, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
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The main chassis is in storage at the moment while my '65 Mustang Fastback restomod is being finished, but here are some shots of various bits.

JD

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Jeff, any shots of the car itself?
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Last edited by Jeff Davison; 10-05-2010 at 07:31 PM.
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post #10 of 43 Old 10-05-2010, 07:25 PM Thread Starter
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That too has been accounted for. When Mike bought his Carbon -Carbon clutch, we did twosies. A couple months ago I got around to machining and lightening the fly wheel.

JD

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Originally Posted by il Capolino View Post
Oh yes, what a sweet engine!

With the snappy response from the Hayabusa setup maybe it would be a great match and even snappier with a lighter flywheel?

Please keep posting

Capo
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post #11 of 43 Old 10-05-2010, 07:29 PM Thread Starter
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That's the plan, but it will still be a while before actual implementation. One bank of the tb's will have a TPS for the ECU to read and the ECU will also get a signal from the 1 bar (GM) MAP sensor. There is no air idle control on this setup, so that may be a little tricky. I'll have to be sure all TB's are syc'd. The Hyabusa throttle linkage permits a secondary cable controlled arm to give a fast idle and will be using a console mounted arm to control it if needed.

JD

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Originally Posted by mk e View Post
Jeff,
When you run this I would love to see a log of the MAP signal.

I got scared on my set-up and decided to just give each TB its own MAP sensor….probably overkill but with big TBS I wasn’t sure there would be much signal left using a canister set-up.

Also, have you decided how you are going to load sense? The Motec engineer I chatted with suggested TPS with the MAP sensor connected to the manifold instead of left open and that would let the software automatically get the best signal (TPS or MAP) without having to deal with trying to do a 4-D load map using both sensors. This seemed like a pretty good thought but it surprised me a bit since I’d never seen it done with other ECUs’/set-ups I’ve seen or worked on over the years. The Motec guys seem to prefer TPS in almost all naturally aspirated applications….other brands seem to all prefer whenever possible but the MAP compensated TPS sure seems like the best of both worlds without giving anything away.
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post #12 of 43 Old 10-06-2010, 03:11 PM
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This is too cool.
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post #13 of 43 Old 10-06-2010, 04:49 PM
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Nice!

Whoa! Look at that clutch!

That's too cool looking to put in the car.
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post #14 of 43 Old 10-07-2010, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Davison View Post
There is no air idle control on this setup, so that may be a little tricky. I'll have to be sure all TB's are syc'd. The Hyabusa throttle linkage permits a secondary cable controlled arm to give a fast idle and will be using a console mounted arm to control it if needed.

JD

The ducati TBs I’m using also have a fast-idle cam. I’m pondering doing something with. I wasn’t thinking cable but more along the lines of driving it with a solenoid or maybe a stepper motor (GM IAC) or linear actuator (Ford or Bosch IAC). I need to get it assembled and running first though I guess……

Mark
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post #15 of 43 Old 10-07-2010, 10:28 AM
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Mark, I'm a fan of those GM IAC's. I run one mounted on an LSx TB feeding my supercharged Lexus V8. An AEM EMS is controlling it, and the GM IAC seems to work better than the OEM Lexus or Toyota setups - the idle is very smooth, and the idle map was much easier to setup than on another setup I have that uses a Toyota IAC.

The GM IAC is also much cheaper than the Lexus/Toyota IAC, and they use fairly common Metri-Pack connectors, so no headaches there.

BTW, I have a great source for custom length sensor/injector/coil leads if you're building your own engine harness? This guy has the right tooling for crimping Metri-Pack, Toyota, and "some" milspec stuff, and he recently built the leads for all my sensors, injectors and COP's. I had him do them in lengths of 2 to 3 meters, so it's sure they'll not need any splices.....

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #16 of 43 Old 10-07-2010, 11:13 AM
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Mark, I'm a fan of those GM IAC's. I run one mounted on an LSx TB feeding my supercharged Lexus V8. An AEM EMS is controlling it, and the GM IAC seems to work better than the OEM Lexus or Toyota setups - the idle is very smooth, and the idle map was much easier to setup than on another setup I have that uses a Toyota IAC.

The GM IAC is also much cheaper than the Lexus/Toyota IAC, and they use fairly common Metri-Pack connectors, so no headaches there.

BTW, I have a great source for custom length sensor/injector/coil leads if you're building your own engine harness? This guy has the right tooling for crimping Metri-Pack, Toyota, and "some" milspec stuff, and he recently built the leads for all my sensors, injectors and COP's. I had him do them in lengths of 2 to 3 meters, so it's sure they'll not need any splices.....
I've used the GM IAC on several set-ups over the years and been happy with it mostly....on the QV supercharge set-ups it never seemed to be able to flow enough air to be able to start the cold engine without press the throttle. I chalked it up to relatively low vacuum on the ferrari engine???

Anyway on the multi-TB setup my thought was to not really use it the way GM intended. Each runner is independent and I’d like them to stay that way so I don’t want idle line connecting them I don’t think. My plan was to use the IAC motor to drive the fast idle cam on the TB throttle linkage. My only hesitation is it requires 4 of the M800’s aux outputs to drive it and I’m not sure I will have them available with everything else that’s going on. The ford unit only needs 1 and the bosche unit 2….but they are not stepper motors so they are not really as well controlled

I’m not sure on the harness yet….Rick offered to make it up for me or normally I just solder the pins I don’t have a crimper for, I’m pretty good at keeping the solder at the connection itself and not up the wire where it can cause the wire to break, a skill left from my air force avionics days years ago.
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post #17 of 43 Old 10-07-2010, 03:05 PM
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You'll probably have a common vacuum manifold or pot for your MAP sensor? Perhaps you could rig the IAC unit up on that? It should be more controllable than trying to crack 12 butterflies to control the idle?

'99 550, Rosso Corsa / Nero, S/N:114654, Assy: 31836, Engine: 52084

High mileage, low compression, and missing on a few cylinders.....just like my cars.

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post #18 of 43 Old 10-07-2010, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
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You'll probably have a common vacuum manifold or pot for your MAP sensor? Perhaps you could rig the IAC unit up on that? It should be more controllable than trying to crack 12 butterflies to control the idle?
No, I built (well had a freind design, but I did assemble it) a way cool board with 123 board mount MAP sensors that looks at the signals and sends the highest vacuum (active cylinder) to the ECU MAP input. I was worried the big TBs won't give me much of a MAP signal.
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post #19 of 43 Old 09-16-2011, 06:20 PM
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Could we see a pic of your manifolds?

Im wondering how tall they are? Id also like to know what stock material you used? Ive been limping thru a conversion,trying to get the details correct.Thanks Jeff & Special thanks to Butcher and especially LuckyDynes

Last edited by reggazz312t; 09-16-2011 at 06:34 PM.
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post #20 of 43 Old 09-16-2011, 06:46 PM
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Im wondering how tall they are? Id also like to know what stock material you used? Ive been limping thru a conversion,trying to get the details correct.Thanks Jeff & Special thanks to Butcher and especially LuckyDynes
Let's have some pics Reg!
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