308 has problems I need opinions - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 16 Old 12-12-2008, 08:53 PM Thread Starter
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308 has problems I need opinions

I need opinions so here goes, I took in my 308 QV 1985 with 38,000 miles to get the timing belt and all other belts replace since I have had the car a little over a year and it came with no service records. I took it to my local Ferrai Dealer. He called to ask me to come over the day after I dropped it off, he had me go into the engine bay with the mechanic and he showed me under the engine that there was a small oil leak and that the fuel filter looked old and said the leak was dripping on the belts which was not a good thing. He said the car was in great condition otherwise except for this issue. He said it needed a major overhaul of all seals, new plugs and that replacing the hoses would be a good idea since car is 23 years old and said the right rear brake brake hose was replaced and suggested I do the other 3 as well. It just so happens I have a complette hose kit which he said he would install with no problem and I found some stainless brake lines ( I will replace all 4 ) for $115 for all 4 and the dealer wanted 160.00 per brake line. He will give me new oil, brake fluid, transmission fluid, new plugs, adjust the clutch and engine. The mechanic who I felt comfortable with ( he's been doing this for 23 years ) said once these things were addressed that I would only need to do the regular maintance for the next few years with no worries. By the way they are giving me a 15% discount for doing the work now while they are slow.
My questions.
1. Is what he is saying make sense ??
2. what should I expect to pay for labor to complete these tasks ??
3. Do I really need to do all the repairs and can I get my local mechanic to do the hoses and brake lines?? They are half the price per hour and I know them very well but they are not a true Ferrari shop.
4. What is the neccesary time intervals to change the fluids or anything else ?.
All questions and opinions would be appreciated

Everyone have a great Holiday !!!!

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post #2 of 16 Old 12-13-2008, 05:30 AM
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Glen...

1) Yes, he is making sense. Leaks are the number 1 cause of mechanical difficulties in Ferrari's. Stopping or preventing leaks should be your number one priority. In additin, I'm sure some of those seals are original to the car. Rubber is not designed to last that long.

2) Labor varies between shops but I would expect a Ferrari dealer to be about $130-$150 per hour. Keep in mind that those rates apply whether the fancy mechanic does it himself or some high school kid assists him.

3) Seals are seals, hoses are hoses, that they are installed in a Ferrari makes no differance. I would consider allowing the Ferrari dealer do the difficult seals (does a 308 have cam seals?) and do all the others myself. That could get you in to a political discussion with the mechanic.

4) fluid should be replaced according to the manufacturers recommendations. See your owners manual.

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post #3 of 16 Old 12-13-2008, 06:19 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Saint,
To many different hands in my car is not a good thing so I am going to suck it up and have him do what needs to be done. I saved about 800.00 in parts by supplying my own brake lines and hosed and heavy duty clamps, They are giving me a 15% discount because its being done when they are slow, and I made a deal that this mechanic will be the only one working on my car whenever I bring it in for for service this way he knows the car already and that may save me some money down the road. Also if anything does go wrong I am eliminating finger pointing and will have the dealer to backup any warranty that will come with it. I can still get my local guy to do the easy stuff, like brakes and such but I feel uncomfortable having different people do all sorts of different things. Do I make sense ??? I love the car, I have the money and I want to be able to use it when I want to and thats worth a little peice of mind as well. Thanks for the input.

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post #4 of 16 Old 12-13-2008, 06:53 AM
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yep...your making sense.

I did pretty much the same thing when I got my 348. I waited to the winter months to do a long overdue major. I had F of NE do it. logic was I wanted a highly experienced Ferrari trainhed mechanic to establish my baseline, the winter saved me 15% on labor, and FoNE was willing to allow me to supply some parts. Hindsight being 20/20, I'm very happy with my decision and the outcome. Future work will be performed with more wallet freindly technicians. I found one in PA that is fully capable, Ferrari experienced, and has a very reasonable labor rate. He's gonna do my gearbox this January for about 1/2 the FoNE estimate.

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post #5 of 16 Old 12-13-2008, 08:22 AM Thread Starter
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You have me thinking about getting the cheaper labor to do the hoses and brake lines, How different can it be for a Ferrari from 1985 ?? I was worried about the bleeding of the hoses and brake lines so no air was trapped but I guess a good mechanic knows this and how to check so it doesn't happen. My local guy charges me $60.00 a/HR as he services my fleet of trucks and cars so he I would positively make out better with him. However where does the money stop and the good of the car begin if you catch my drift. For the belts, seals/gaskets/plugs and adjustments and the tear down of the engine I want a Ferrari mechanic that has done this many times before on my model car and am willing to pay for that, but for the hoses and brake lines am I spending an extra 500.00-$1000 to pay a Dealer what my guy can do and have it be just as good ??
Do you mind sharing who the mechanic is, is PA ?? I live in plymouth Meeting, right near the PA Turnpike and NE Extension
Thanks

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post #6 of 16 Old 12-13-2008, 08:57 AM
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It does make sense to me as well. Only thing I would do is negotiate a cap on the labor costs. It is slow they should be willing to do this.
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post #7 of 16 Old 12-13-2008, 11:02 PM
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Alot of these tasks are straightforward and any competent mechanic can do them. Replacing brake hoses is even a DIY home job, but - and I emphasize the word "but" - if anything should go wrong (like snapping off one of the brake tubes connected to the brake hoses, or damaging one of the fittings in the fuel system), it can get out-of-hand and cause serious costly problems to those not accustomed with working with these cars - or have access to replacement parts or the abilities to make the necessary unique repairs.

You'll be better off having all of this work done by this Ferrari mechanic of yours and you picked a good time to have this done, as the winter time is a slow season, so shops like this can keep busy with these kinds of projects.

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post #8 of 16 Old 12-14-2008, 10:54 AM
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You have a PM with a mechanic recommendation

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post #9 of 16 Old 12-20-2008, 06:05 AM Thread Starter
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I called Jim at Pocono

I spoke to Jim at Pocono and what a great guy. I wish I was closwer than 2 1/2 hours away or I would have had the car moved to him. Next time I need something major Jim is getting my car. Thanks for all the help
Viva Ferrari !!!!

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post #10 of 16 Old 12-21-2008, 12:20 PM
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I would like to make a suggestion with respect to you buying your own parts.

If you do the work, fine, but if you expect a mechanic to use someone else's parts you are not building a relationship or respecting your mechanic!

And if a part fails you purchased your mechanic will not only shy away from any involvemnt with that part he's going to charge you additional labor to deal with it's replacement.

If you get into the big time of owning a high maintenance vehicle understand there are no shortcuts. Let the mechanic stay in business so he'll be there when you need him again. Buying parts from another does not help pay your mechanic's overhead.

Would you appreciate someone doing your job for less cost?
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post #11 of 16 Old 12-21-2008, 01:02 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for your thoughts and I understand completely. I would rather get the parts from my mechanic ,who happens to be a dealer so I am sure the mechanic does really care but not as much as the Manager.
Where do you draw the line ??
I took the car in originally for a Belt service so I figured on 1500.00 or so. They call me in to the shop and show me the leak and say I need a complete major engine service ( 30,000 )
So he says I am looking at about 5k in labor plus parts, but I will get a 15% discount for doing it over the winter when they are slow. I told him I have a few parts already and he says no problem bring them and we will use them. I had Stainless brake cables and he saysd he would put them in at no extra charge. How much can I expect to pay for parts. I did some research and found a guy I would love to use however he is 2 hours away and do I pull the car ??? I figured I would bite the bullet and let the dearler install his kit. I found the kit for 1095.00 here is what it has:
We do sell a 308 QV complete kit to include -

1 x end plate gasket
1 x end plate gasket
4 x Camseals
4 x Cam O Rings
1 x Left Cam Cover gasket
1 x Right Cam Cover Gasket
2 x Cambelts
1 x Fuel Filter
1 x Oil Filter
1 x Air Filter
1 x Water Pump Belt
2 x Distributor Seals
2 x Distributor Cap Gasket
2 x Distributor Plate Gasket
1 x Alternator Belt
1 x A/C Belt
2 x Tensioner Bearings (SKF)
4 x Cam Bolt O rings
1 x Set of Iridium Plugs
1 x Free delivery
The price for this kit is 1095.00 USD

What do you think the dealer would charge ??
I am going to the dealer tomorrow to take pictures and talk to him about what I can expect asa final bill. The mechanic I spoke to that is 2 hours away said approx $5000.00 complete. This mechanic has come highly recomended by many of the people on this Ferrari site.
Thanks
Bottom line you are not wrong, I am just feel why pay an extra couple grand ??

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post #12 of 16 Old 12-21-2008, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captglen308 View Post
---I am going to the dealer tomorrow to ---and talk to him about what I can expect as a final bill.
Your feelings are well understood.

Contract with the dealer in advance so there are no surprises and everyone comes out a winner.

In future speak with Daniel at Ricambi about parts if you can do the work yourself.

If not find a very well respected independent and contract with him. You will benefit much better, and his interest will be more deep seated for your benefit.

You are paying a large amount for the dealer's very high overhead and chances are you may not get the work quality you expected.

I understand about not having to pay more than you should. No question.

However, find that independent and you will be happier.
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post #13 of 16 Old 01-03-2009, 12:31 PM Thread Starter
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Its Done and Car is back !!!

I decided to let my local guy do that to save some money. I already have the hoses and they matchup perfectly.
Now onto my car. The final Bill was $6400.00 (ouch ) Dealer said he had over 60 hours into the car and could not bill me for all of it. He also did a detail at no cost ( I am sure its built in somewhere ) Car looks like it just came out of the Showroom
The breakdown is Labor $ 5934.00 Parts & Misc 1556.00 = $ 7490.00 less Labor Discount $890.00 Less Parts Discount $ 175.12 Total $ 6425.00
I was honestly thinking $8000.00 so I was not upset at all.
Here is what was done
1. Door Latch Repair ( Driverside door would not lock ) $ 500.00
2. Vehicle Check over $ 258.00
3, Major Timing Bet Service $ 5160.00
4.Replaced all Coolant Hoses
5. Brake Lines Replaced with Goodrich Stainlesss Steel Hose Lines ( I supplied the hoses add $ 115.00 )
6.Converted AC to R134A and replaced AC adapter fitting ( We didn't discuss this he just did it ) I was ok with it
7.Cleaned and had to replace One (1) Fuel injector ( Injector cost was $125.00 )
8. Changed Engine Oil & Filter, Flushed Brakes Fluid and Flushed Gear Oil, Replaced Fuel Filter
Mechanic said DO NOT use Synthetic Oil, Use a High Quality Manufacturer with 10W/40 Oil only
He started repairing Ferrari's the same year my car was made 1985, he was Awsome !!
I cannot say enough good things about Algar, there Service Manager Mark and also Patrick were great
The Mechanic George did an incredible job of answering all my stupid questions and explaining things to me , ( I was very skepitcal )
She runs better then she ever has. She shifts as smooth as silk after George did his magic and re-adusted the linkage
George basically put the car back into Ferrari specs and it shows !!!
I could not be happier.
George told me to drive the car every 2 weeks even if its just around the block. it will keep everything lubricated and I will follow his direction
I guess the bottom line is you get what you pay for and I am happy but just a little lighter in the pocket
I just need some good clear weather and away I'll go ( Here in Pa. )
Thanks to all who responded
Viva Ferrari

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post #14 of 16 Old 01-03-2009, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captglen308 View Post
---6.Converted AC to R134A and replaced AC adapter fitting ( We didn't discuss this he just did it ) I was ok with it---
Big mistake.

R134a does not cool as well as R12 on older systems. The condensor and evaporator coils are too small for R134.

He should have left it alone.
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post #15 of 16 Old 01-03-2009, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
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Thats what I said but he said there is no difference and you can't get the R134 and if you can get it its so expensive. I gues it is what it is.

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post #16 of 16 Old 01-03-2009, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captglen308 View Post
Thats what I said but he said there is no difference and you can't get the R134 and if you can get it its so expensive. I gues it is what it is.
He's dead wrong; there is a huge difference and you'll find out when you turn that A/C on when it's hot.

Also R12 is very abundant. Every shop I know in CA has it. It is recycled from earlier cars, junk yards, etc. He just does not have it. So he used what was less costly for him and which he had on hand.

Just letting you know so you are informed.
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