328 Exhaust - Ferrari Life
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 15 Old 09-15-2007, 11:14 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Ferrari Life Posts: 65
328 Exhaust

Steve's 328 has a Tubi exhaust, which sounds very nice. He tells me the stock exhaust is quieter, but if I purchase a 328, I'd probably like something just a bit more raw than even the Tubi. Any input on recommended alternative exhausts for a 328?

Since I also have a Lambo 400GT, I also stay in touch on the Yahoo Vintage Lamborghini Garage (VLG) discussion group. For anyone interested, one of the guys posted a link to a youtube search for Countach exhausts,

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...untach+exhaust

There's a wide range in sounds between Tubi, Quicksilver, and one called a Kreissieg system. The Kreissieg sounds amazing! Anyway, thanks for any input!

Rick
rwschumm is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 Old 09-15-2007, 12:23 PM
Administrator
Owner
Elite Member
 
Boxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK & Texas
Ferrari Life Posts: 15,131
Well, you could start with a cat bypass set up. Fabspeed does one for the 328.

http://www.fabspeed.com/ferrari_F348_F328.html
Boxer is offline  
post #3 of 15 Old 09-15-2007, 12:57 PM
Owner
 
Ferrari328GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Ferrari Life Posts: 366
Cat Bypass

Oops, I forgot to tell Rick that I already have a cat bypass pipe on my 328. -Steve
Ferrari328GT is offline  
 
post #4 of 15 Old 09-15-2007, 01:56 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Ferrari Life Posts: 65
Ok, thanks for clarifying Steve!

Rick %^)
rwschumm is offline  
post #5 of 15 Old 09-15-2007, 02:06 PM
Owner
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Ferrari Life Posts: 3,928
What are the advantages/benefits of by-passing the cat?
I have a 89 328, would it be fitted with cat's?
Thanks

Archie
archiegibbs is offline  
post #6 of 15 Old 09-15-2007, 04:33 PM
Owner
Elite Member
 
t1fosI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: London, UK.
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,733
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiegibbs View Post
What are the advantages/benefits of by-passing the cat?
I have a 89 328, would it be fitted with cat's?
Thanks

You don't get hair on the seats/roof of the car.

Cats only became mandatory in the UK in 1992, some cars before then were fitted with them, but the only cat in your car should be the furry kind on the seat.

I am not sure, but I think in the US cats were introduced sometime in the late 70's, early 80's?
t1fosI is offline  
post #7 of 15 Old 09-15-2007, 08:07 PM
Owner
Elite Member
 
Pete04222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: USA & Singapore
Ferrari Life Posts: 5,509
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiegibbs View Post
What are the advantages/benefits of by-passing the cat?
I have a 89 328, would it be fitted with cat's?
Thanks
The advantage of bypassing a catalytic converter is less exhaust restriction. Your car has cats and you would probably see a little difference in power and noise were you to remove them. The disadvantage - well in the USA it is against the law to remove them. I'm sure the UK is the same. Any emission-control component that was originally installed on the vehicle must remain on the vehicle. Even on my Jeep, where the only original component is the steering wheel, I put in a hi-flow catalytic converter. I push the limits, but I go by the book.

Capt. Pete
'79 308 GTS, '82 Jeep CJ7 Jamboree
"Time is what prevents everything from happening all at once."
Pete04222 is offline  
post #8 of 15 Old 09-16-2007, 12:23 AM
Administrator
Owner
Elite Member
 
Boxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK & Texas
Ferrari Life Posts: 15,131
On F40s, most of the pre 92 Euro cars do not have Cats. These are considered to have slightly more power than the later cars. In the real world I have never been able to tell the difference. IMHO, you will get a much bigger performance boost by investing in a course at a racing or advanced driving school than by tuning the exhaust.

In many cases, the biggest restriction on performance is the squishy thing holding the wheel.
Boxer is offline  
post #9 of 15 Old 09-16-2007, 08:19 AM
Owner
 
Ferrari328GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Ferrari Life Posts: 366
Cats

Here's the deal on cats, Archie. When cats are new, they cause virtually no extra restriction in the exhaust system, and no power loss. However, when they get old, they can plug up with soot and broken pieces of the honeycomb, creating significant backpressure, and loss of power. When I got my 328, the cat was already 20 years old. There are two ways to check for restriction. One is to put a pressure gauge in the exhaust before the cat and see what numbers you get. The other is to remove the cat and see if it runs better. Since the original cat was manufactured in 1985, cat substrate material has improved a lot. Newer ones are way more efficient and create even less backpressure. You can actually look right through them. So, I decided that I would replace the 20 year old, old design cat with a newer Magnaflow one anyway. Turns out, the old one was indeed restricted, and the car definitely runs better with the test pipe. I have purchased a new Magnaflow converter brick, just haven't welded it into the system yet. -Steve
Ferrari328GT is offline  
post #10 of 15 Old 09-16-2007, 09:32 AM
Owner
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Ferrari Life Posts: 3,928
Thanks Steve. I don't even know if a 89 Euro 328 has cat's, I'll have to check up, unless anyone knows for sure?
As it happens, the 328 is going for it's annual MOT inspection tomorrow, part of which includes an emissions test. I'll ask the tester if it has cat's and how well they are performing?

Archie
archiegibbs is offline  
post #11 of 15 Old 09-16-2007, 11:16 AM
Owner
 
Ferrari328GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Ferrari Life Posts: 366
More on Cats

According to the parts book, Euro cars do not have cats. The rear header goes directly into the LH side of the muffler. The front header goes to the RH side of the muffler. On USA cars, the two headers tee together and go through one large cat, then to one inlet on the muffler.

An emissions test will tell you how well the converter is converting, but not whether it is producing excessive backpressure.

Catalytic converters are interesting devices. You throw HC and CO at them, and they convert virtually all of it to CO2 and water. You can keep throwing more CO and HC, and you get even more CO2 and water. As long as there are "sites" available for converting, you get zero HC and CO out the tailpipe. It is only when you overload the cat, for example when you have a misfire, that you get high CO and HC readings at the tailpipe. So if the emissions printout says you have zero CO and HC, you don't know whether the engine is really clean, or the cat is doing the cleaning up. You might be one molecule away from overload! This is why there are those little tubes coming off the headers on USA cars - they read the exhaust before the cat. Does any of this make sense? -Steve
Ferrari328GT is offline  
post #12 of 15 Old 09-16-2007, 12:55 PM
Owner
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Ferrari Life Posts: 3,928
Steve, it sort of makes sense to me, but I'm not an engineer and don't understand highly technical things. By the sounds of it, I don't have cat's so at least it's one less thing to worry about breaking Thanks for your help.

Archie
archiegibbs is offline  
post #13 of 15 Old 09-16-2007, 04:17 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Ferrari Life Posts: 65
Steve - looks like you're doing a great job of providing technical input on the cat topic. I'm not an expert, but I know that for years (maybe still), many US catalytic systems were "3-way"... ie, they controled CO, HC, and NOx, all of which are of concern in the US. Problem is that if you have too much O2 in the exhaust, the cat system is less efficient in removing one of these pollutants (don't remember which one), and if there is too little O2 in the exhaust, the cat is less efficient on a different one. So there's an optimum O2 level in the exhaust that the combustion system has to control, in order to optimize efficiency of the cats. Not sure, may not be as much of an issue today, but I always thought that the exhaust tubes were all for the O2 sensors for this system, except for temporary exhaust taps that may be there for testing. Is there any other use for O2 sensors that you're aware of Steve?

Anyway, at risk of making this a cat thread, I'm still interested in 328 exhaust options. Has anyone installed an aftermarket exhaust on their 328, besides a Tubi? PS Steve - I'm leaning toward a 328, but still want to take a look at a TR before deciding for sure. You're right that a TR is bigger (specs show TR is almost 10" wider than BOTH the 328 and Boxer), and 9" longer than 328, as well as being heavier.

Thanks again.
Rick
rwschumm is offline  
post #14 of 15 Old 09-16-2007, 07:03 PM
Owner
 
Ferrari328GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Ferrari Life Posts: 366
Hi Rick. I am trying to keep things fairly simple, so I didn't even mention NOx. This whole subject takes about two weeks of lecture to cover, so I left a few things out. However, the simple answer to your question is that lean mixtures create low CO and HC, but high NOx. Rich mixtures create lots of HC and CO, but low NOx. So, the best spot for all three to be low is at stoichiometric, which is 14.7 to 1 air/fuel ratio (by weight). The purpose of the O2 sensor is to keep the mixture as close to 14.7 as possible. The O2 sensor only reads oxygen. A lean mixture means there is extra oxygen, a rich one means no oxygen. The sensor essentially reads either oxygen, or no oxygen, and sends that signal to the computer. The computer then modifies the amount of fuel injected in order to drive the O2 sensor the other way. This happens many times per second, rich to lean to rich to lean, and it averages out to the desired 14.7 to 1. As you probably know, the computer in a late model car has more computer power than it took to land man on the moon in 1969. The program is over 1,000 pages long, and another 250 pages of calibration numbers. That's what it takes to run the engine clean, still run well, and get decent gas mileage. Class dismissed . -Steve

Last edited by Ferrari328GT; 09-16-2007 at 07:18 PM.
Ferrari328GT is offline  
post #15 of 15 Old 09-16-2007, 10:47 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Ferrari Life Posts: 65
Thanks Steve. Hope there's no pop quiz! Makes sense that the stoichiometric is the target point.

Rick
rwschumm is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome
Copyright 2012 ONE Media, Inc.
FerrariLife is independently run with no affiliation with Ferrari SpA
Ferrari for Sale | Maserati for Sale