348 Purchase Question - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 18 Old 06-26-2007, 09:28 PM Thread Starter
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348 Purchase Question

I am looking at purchasing my first Ferrari a 1991 348TS with 50K miles. I like the basic car, it has tubi exhaust, ac works, all electrical works, nice stereo, and the interior is okay. But it has some issues as follows.

1. The car has had a major service done "some time ago" but the hoses are all cracked and really need replaced. This tells me it really needs a major done.

2. The paint is good at 15 feet. lots of little rock chips etc. I was thinking of painting it and changing the color from the original white to red. What will this do to the value of the car if anything. Obviously I am talking about a first class dissasembly and repaint.

3. The transmission is very stiff between 2nd and 3rd gears

4. the car has water vapor coming out of the exhaust after running 5-10 minutes. Is this normal? Could this be a sign of a larger problem?

Bottom line is, what shoud one of these be worth if it needs paint, and a major done?

Thanks,

Dave
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post #2 of 18 Old 06-26-2007, 11:24 PM
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Dave, This car has great potential to be a "big hurt" in the wallet. If you really like it, get a proper Pre purchase inspection done. The issues you described could turn out to be $10k to 30k problems.
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post #3 of 18 Old 06-27-2007, 03:22 PM
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this sounds like an infamous 'cheap' Ferrari.

I would pass on this one and search out the best car you can find, and buy it. Avoid the nightmare!

Ciao

Dino
TR, F40, Mondialt cab, 308QV, 348 Challenge, CS
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post #4 of 18 Old 06-27-2007, 03:27 PM
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Agree. walk away.
take your time to find a good car & full history.
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post #5 of 18 Old 06-27-2007, 03:36 PM Thread Starter
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thanks for all of your input. I guess that my biggest temptation with this car is that I used to be a mechanic before I went to college and got a real job, and I still like to tinker. Also, this car is about 20K less expensive that others that I have seen. Do I sound like someone desperate to get a great deal, and like I am talking myself into this car?
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post #6 of 18 Old 06-27-2007, 09:07 PM
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Do a major before running the engine anymore than you need to, water droplets from the exhaust is ok but not a vapor, and do a leak down test. Can't tell you if the trany is about to go but some 348's do have stiff shifting problems.
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post #7 of 18 Old 06-28-2007, 08:14 AM
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Desotodave,

The 348 has been my subject of interest for quite some time. Now you’re talking about stuff than can easily be fixed if need be. How much is the car? When was the last major done? When is 2nd and 3rd stiff? Is right after start up? Or 30 mins later after all is warmed up? Now vapor can mean just water sitting in the exhaust after it being washed and parked. After 5 – 10 mins the water start to boil…just like a kettle, pretty easy to fix…rev the shit out of it when driving it…lol But if it’s white smoke…that’s different.

Now repainting it from white to red if the job is done by experts and not your local paint shop will actually raise the resale value…just don’t expect more than a few K’s, but at least it doesn’t make it drop. Red is a high demand color and comes at a higher premium.

An original red 348 TB with aprox 25k – 35k miles on it with a recent major (within a year) and in very good condition is worth 60K. Now remove 5K for it being white, remove 10K for the major and hoses, rock chips are part of owning a Ferrari, but if the front end looks like it was sandblaster well then that’s another story. So now you’re down to 45K, if you have gear issues, you can remove 5K depending on the issues (after the PPI). Now you’re down to 40K. So you’re either paying 60k for one that needs work or 40K for one that needs work. But if you budget is only 40K….then walk away.


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post #8 of 18 Old 06-28-2007, 09:20 AM Thread Starter
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Magnum,

The car is $30K. The dealer does not know when a major was done on it, but said they can tell one has been done in the past, but no info on when. Just looking at the hoses etc. I have only driven the car about a mile, and was very careful, as I think the car absolultely HAS to have a major done. I have a local independent shop that will do the major for me for $5k. I have not got a price for a paint job yet, that is next. Don't get me wrong, the paint on the car is very serviceable, but I am very picky about paint, and would like a red car. As to the water vapor, it was just at start-up, and It appeared that the car had not been started for several weeks (given the layer of dirt that had accumulated on the exterior). The car does not have any blue Smoke coming out of the tail pipe so no worries there. As for the transmission, I did not drive the car far enough to warm up the transmission, so I don't know if the shifting changes once it warms up (again I was worried about the belt situation).

The car is being sold by an independent Ferrari service center (all they work on is Ferrari's). This place also sells parts from wrecked ferrari's, as well as sells some used cars. The story I get from them is they purchased this car on behalf of a client, from a dealer in Texas. In transit the truck damaged the hood of the car, which has been repainted (it was a small dent). According to the dealer that they purchased it from it was supposed to have had a major done, but it is obvious to anyone who looks that it has been a long time. All of the hoses in the engine back are cracking, and the engine is dirty. Anyway, once the car got there, and it needed a major, and the hood was damaged their client backed out on the deal.

So, my quandry is do I take this on as a project, put $15 to $20 into it. My thinking is that if I have all of the work done myself, then I know exactly what I have, and go into the deal assuming the worse up front!
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post #9 of 18 Old 06-28-2007, 02:42 PM
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if you must

Quote:
Originally Posted by desotodave View Post
Magnum,
The dealer does not know when a major was done on it, but said they can tell one has been done in the past,
doens't sound good to me:
- can tell?? really, how?, did he take the covers off the timing belts to look at them?
- if he doesn't know, then the history is sparse and doesn't make sense...any Ferrari owner worth his salt knows when how and what, especially on the 348 [newer cars] because it's an engine out experience which usually has other 'while-were-in-there' things to take care of like tension bearing, water pump and the like.
- if he doesn't know when the major was done, then does he know how often the fluids were changed?
I am recommended to change them every year, and that's ALL fluids..a bit of overkill but then it's good, and there are sometimes other things to find.


Quote:
...I think the car absolultely HAS to have a major done. I have a local independent shop that will do the major for me for $5k.
You think?
NO NO NO on the independent shop UNLESS he has worked on the 348 engine before!!!!
I had a qualified Ferrari mech do my 30k for about $6k [1,5-2k savings] and it turned into a nightmare...had to have it totally redone and fix the things he didn't do right....
He probably won't know the issues no matter how much time he spends on the internet.



Quote:
the transmission, so I don't know if the shifting changes once it warms up
most Ferrari's of this age have the 2nd gear shift problem, that will go away after warmup, but if still there after 10-15min drive, then look out....might be something else.

also these models have some leveling motor issues, but inexpensive to fix.
seatbelt auto-matic tensioners were problematic too.
The TS sometimes had roof leaks near front corners, but not a big deal to me.

thing that concerns me is it's an independent dealer who has no answers, and they are in the low end consumer market. ARE there service dealers for this in Utah
certainly there is a previous owner or is this a salvage car: if the latter then you are buying a car for track use I guess IMO

you have some great F dealers in your near area, like denver, seattle, portland


Quote:
put $15 to $20 into it. My thinking is that if I have all of the work done myself, then I know exactly what I have, and go into the deal assuming the worse up front!
if your willing to put 20k into it, then not so bad IMO, you'll get what you expect...BUT still feel that a VIN search on carfax [not that good] or googling the VIN will get some answers. have you checked the 348registry.com ?
http://www.club348.com/registry/registry.html
there are actually several registries about.
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post #10 of 18 Old 06-29-2007, 08:18 AM Thread Starter
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I have run a carfax on the car, but the 348 registry is currently closed. The Carfax shows up clean, and after going over the car for about an hour, I have been unable to find any indications of body damage.
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post #11 of 18 Old 06-29-2007, 08:24 AM Thread Starter
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Here is a quick picture of the car that I am looking at.
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post #12 of 18 Old 06-29-2007, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granucci View Post
have you checked the 348registry.com ?
http://www.club348.com/registry/registry.html
there are actually several registries about.
Great comments!

Is there a said registry as well for the F355 spiders.

Chicago_Pete
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post #13 of 18 Old 06-29-2007, 09:27 AM
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First off, Granucci is right about having the VIN checked out as much as you can. If it’s not good, walk away but if it’s good, proceed to the second step, get a PPI anyways. Tell them you know the major needs to be done as well as the hoses but you just want to make sure everything else looks good. Also get a leak down and compression test done just to make sure. If more serious issues pop up in the PPI and or leak and comp test fail…walk away. If all looks good…negotiate if you willing to put some money in it. Not all cars that need work are cancers, they just need TLC.

Personally, I think $30K is a little high, I would offer 20-22K max for the car because of high mileage and no documented history, $20 if any work needs to be done inside like carpets or some leather pieces or you can say the paint needs to be freshened up (don’t tell them you want it red) just say “I will have to get the front re-sprayed” or something like that. I would tell them “listen, the gearbox could be damaged as well and I’m willing to take a chance but not at $30K”. If anything needs to be fixed, it highly unlikely it will be over 10K for the gearbox or they wouldn’t of let you test drive it just in case. They will probably accept because they want to make money, or at least recuperate some money. They sell cars for a living and nobody wants a major loss or have to do all the work and take a chance and hope it doesn’t take a year to sell. That is an expensive investment for them to have a car sitting on the lot with major work done and is costing them money everyday, interest and insurance etc…This is my opinion, some out there might say “why bother, get one in good shape and avoid all this”, you could, but this way you know everything is done and what was done to it. Some buy them in great shape and still get surprises. This is a great way to get to know your car whether you get the work done or do it yourself and this way you know the condition of your car and know what was done.

But then again, this is just my opinion because $20K does sound very reasonable and if you walk away, they know not a whole lot of people are willing to go that route with a Ferrari and take it off their hands. You have to remember, it’s just a car, and cars are cars…people are afraid of the name and not the work itself.


Mario

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Last edited by Magnum6464; 06-29-2007 at 09:34 AM.
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post #14 of 18 Old 06-29-2007, 03:53 PM
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get a PPI anyway, dealer would not have an issue with this, and if so, WALK AWAY

PS: Not sure about your research, but this site has a very good buyer's quide to the 348 and the Mondial T [same engine]...they are about $5 each and are well written and about spot on as I could feel.

Invest in those guides first [amazon.com has a download feature for them too...and NO, I'm not a sponsor just a member here]. I also found it helpful for my 456 [albeit I have sugs for the updates ]

but if you must pull the trigger, be sure that's what you want for a couple-three years min. IMO
continue in forum...
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post #15 of 18 Old 06-30-2007, 02:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granucci View Post
get a PPI anyway,

Invest in those guides first [amazon.com has a download feature for them too...and NO, I'm not a sponsor just a member here]. I also found it helpful for my 456 [albeit I have sugs for the updates ]

...
We are about to start updating several of the guides again. Any suggestions would be very helpful.
I can be reached by either PM or email [email protected]
Thanks.

Resources: Parts List | Buyer's Guides
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post #16 of 18 Old 07-02-2007, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by williamtaylor View Post
We are about to start updating several of the guides again. Any suggestions would be very helpful.
I can be reached by either PM or email [email protected]
Thanks.
mail on the way.....will give some on the 456 too.
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post #17 of 18 Old 07-16-2007, 01:15 PM
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mail on the way.....will give some on the 456 too.
Hi, Did you get a chance to send ?

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post #18 of 18 Old 10-30-2011, 08:51 AM
 
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What did you find out?

I know this is an old post, but I am curious as to what happened? Did inspections yield additional concerns and a pass on the car?
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