348 3d printed parts - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 20 Old 03-15-2016, 08:48 AM Thread Starter
 
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3d printed parts

Hi Guys I'm new to this forum but have owned several Ferraris in my time. I currently own a black 348ts series speciale and have been able to help out a couple of friends with the same car and print plastic parts for them. I am an Engineer buy trade and have several machines and surfacing abilities to create almost anything, when I have extra time on my hands. I have done several custom car badges for people and also 348 badges for a couple of guys here in town. These are 3d printed in ABS then hand painted with the 3M automotive backing tape. The machine I am using prints with two heads one for material and the other for support. I am in the process making the machine print one head in Black and one head in White to see if I can just print my badges and ship them at a reduced price with out doing all the painting work. Here is a quick picture of what I currently have completed. I also have completed a nice cup holder with USB ports that replace the current ashtray. Will post pictures once the final product is done.

thanks
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post #2 of 20 Old 03-15-2016, 08:58 AM
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I've seen some of your work on Fchat and it's very nice. However, for other parts, IMHO, 3D printing is just not advanced enough (yet) to compare to injection molding. The badges above look very nice though.
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post #3 of 20 Old 03-15-2016, 10:50 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks. Yes the badge works well on a 3d printer. I manage a tool and mold shop with injection machines and I agree that injection molding is the only way to go for a perfect part at this time, but to expensive to build for a one off. I am looking into getting a little electric machine at the shop and possibly make a couple small aluminium molds of stuff like this which requires no attachment clips.

thanks again.
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post #4 of 20 Old 03-15-2016, 11:26 AM
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We run into broken parts all the time in the refinishing business. If you have the ability to produce molds and make these parts (100% factory correct) you could get a lot of business over the years. Email me if you wish to chat about it. I could help guide you as to which parts are needed the most and the ones that a simple mold could be made. You could sell them unfinished or we could finish them for you as a partnership.
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post #5 of 20 Old 03-23-2016, 08:52 AM Thread Starter
 
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Just finished my new cup holder for my car. Looks great, will post pictures soon. Added USB and Power ports. Also updated the original ash tray with a USB port in place of the lighter. Will be printing that one this weekend.
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post #6 of 20 Old 06-11-2017, 11:34 AM
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Hello
Any news about thz completed a nice cup holder with USB ports that replace the current ashtray ?
thanks
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post #7 of 20 Old 03-18-2018, 12:45 PM
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hello I finaly have done this in injected plasitc in mould because could not find top quality new parts.






Im working on ashtray too




Last edited by fana348 France; 03-18-2018 at 12:53 PM.
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post #8 of 20 Old 12-19-2018, 12:40 PM
 
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The ash tray looks amazing. Are you selling these? Can you ship to the United States?
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post #9 of 20 Old 12-26-2018, 06:52 PM
 
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The problem with injection molded plastic is that this is normally pretty expensive. The vast majority of companies use billet aluminum for their molds. They will charge you for the engineering time to design the mold, the material for the mold, the machining of the mold and then other associated costs. The upfront investment is thousands of dollars. The actual production costs of injection molding is pretty cheap. To re-engineer and then reproduce parts for vehicles that no longer have factory support for every part, this often isn't an economically viable option because the part cost winds up being stupid expensive. You need to produce enough parts to share the sunk cost of the molds.

I'm curious to know the details behind fana348 France's injection molded parts, due to everything I just typed. I'm working on a related project for a classic car I own (1973 Opel GT). The classic Opel community has a lot of parts being reproduced but defroster vents for the GT is not one of those parts. I decided to take on the venture of reproducing them and that has turned into creating my own injection molding machine. I'm still working on it, but the device will be capable of melting somewhere around 2.5 to 3 lbs (5.5 to 6.6 kg) of plastic. To resolve the expensive side to injection molding, I'll be using a high temp resin as the mold material. My first project is to reproduce the vents for my vehicle and the Opel community, but after that it would be nice to find other projects for classic car communities. I'm working on starting my own company as a side business and I'm open to suggestions as to what is desperately needed in the classic car world.

Not many companies specialize in low volume production solutions when it involves plastic. 3D printing has become a stop gap solution to that problem, however typical 3D printed parts do not have the quality of an injection molded part. The type of 3D printers that can, are very expensive and they still have a rather limited print size. So 3D printing isn't the best solution either, however 3D printed ABS can be visually improved by using acetone to smooth over the part surfaces. It still won't be as strong as an injection molded ABS part, but if the part is cosmetic anyways then that is less of an issue. The main issue would be the appearance of the part, you don't want a badge on a Ferrari to look 3D printed. Acetone can also be used to glue various 3D printed ABS parts together, because it is an chemical reaction. The acetone is slowly dissolving the ABS, it can cause 2 ABS pieces to bond together.

I hadn't planned on sharing all that with you guys, I like to check in every month or so and see what you guys are up to. Dave has been quiet and I liked reading about his F355 restoration.

~Joe
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post #10 of 20 Old 12-27-2018, 05:45 AM
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Hey Joe,


So, you are correct in many ways and aluminum molds are used to save cost for low production. Many molds are made from steel.


What the gentlemen in France is doing is called Urethane casting. Basically, you use a master and make a mold from silicone and then use urethane to make the part. The part master can be an original part or a 3D printed part that has a lot of post processing to smooth the part and create better detail.


As far as my restoration goes, my Sticky business is very busy and keeping me off the project. Hoping to get back to it soon.


BTW, I post far more on Ferrari Chat these days since this forum has somewhat dyed off.
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post #11 of 20 Old 12-27-2018, 08:10 AM
 
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Hey Dave,

I've been checking out your StickyRx website, pretty impressive. Off topic but I was wondering, when you laser the graphic, is the color of that graphic dictated by the normal color of the part? So you're just burning away the paint on top of it?

I know about urethane casting, I considered using it for the vents I'm working on. I decided not to because the part really should be made out of ABS or similar plastic. Injection molding provides a lot of possibilities. Urethane casting is a pretty neat process that has a lot of benefits however. I'll probably get into it for some engine development ideas I have kicking around my head. Clear valve covers and the like.

~Joe
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post #12 of 20 Old 12-27-2018, 09:03 AM
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Hey Joe,


So, our laser has the capability to mark some plastics and leave a colored mark. For interior refinishing, this is not possible as all of our parts are coating with our hard touch coatings and in most cases, the graphics are back lite for illumination at night. So, yes, we burn the top layer of the coating to expose the color below.


Injection molding is a great and nothing will ever beat it. That said, the mold cost is very high compared to Urethane casting.
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post #13 of 20 Old 12-27-2018, 05:03 PM
 
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That is what I want to tackle about injection molding. I want to reduce the mold cost to something like $300-400 per part. By using 3D printing and a high temp resin to create molds, this will eliminate the high cost of aluminum or steel and the machining of those materials. Once I've successfully knocked out a production run of defroster vents, I'll know more specifics about total cost and what this is method can handle.

What parts do you know of Dave, that are really needed to be reproduced in plastic? I know I'll need a test part before going after the vents. The vents I'm working on are a driver and passenger side vent, and each vent has to be done in halves. So, I'll need a total of 4 different molds and each mold will require 2 or more components. Because of all this, I'll want to do a test piece once I'm ready. Something small and simple. If that part also happens to be something that is needed, then that's great.

~Joe
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Last edited by Autoholic; 12-27-2018 at 05:09 PM.
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post #14 of 20 Old 12-27-2018, 06:42 PM
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3D printed parts or 3D printed molds will never provide the resolution of metal injection molded parts. If you are not familiar with injection molds, they often have high polished surfaces so the parts produced are smooth. You just cannot achieve that with 3D printing without tremendous post processing and hand work.
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post #15 of 20 Old 12-27-2018, 08:05 PM
 
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The process I'm working on would use 3D printing for mold positives. These would be smoothed out to provide the surface finish that is required for molds. Then a high temp resin would be poured over the mold positives to create the mold negatives that are needed. The molds would be checked for surface finish before using them. Using ABS for the mold positive material, acetone can be used to quickly smooth out the surfaces. Then I can use really smooth grit sandpaper if needed. Below is an example of what acetone vapor smoothing can do for ABS. It's easier to convert your time into money than to magically find more money to save you time. LOL.


~Joe
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Last edited by Autoholic; 12-27-2018 at 08:11 PM.
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post #16 of 20 Old 12-28-2018, 05:16 AM
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The method you are describing is Urethane castings. You are just using a 3D printed part as a master. Regarding the smoothing, sure, many methods can be used but all of those will compromise the geometry and if you have parts with high dimensional tolerances, it's game over.
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post #17 of 20 Old 12-28-2018, 01:37 PM
 
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Right, there will be some dimensional accuracy that is lost. It's still a work in progress and I may or may not wind up with the ability to just CNC a billet of resin to create the molds. The key to reducing the cost to a point that would make really low volume production of injection molded parts is to reduce the mold cost. That means the molds can't be made from metal.

~Joe
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post #18 of 20 Old 01-07-2019, 09:59 AM
 
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The part 2mmuch created some time ago did not stand up to the high temperature of a closed up car on a summer day (there is a thread on F-Chat somewhere discussing this issue). fana348 France is selling the ashtray on a French eBay site for roughly $300 USD. That price is a steal if the part can stand up to the heat. I don't speak/read French but it appears to me he will not ship to the United States. Translated from the ad:
"Delivery may not be available to United States - see the description of the item or contact the seller for more information on delivery options."

I'm looking in to other options to fill the space of the ash tray and the coin holder. My problem is I'm not a 3D modeler and I'm not really interested in investing in the equipment to produce parts. My solution(s) will need to be from existing production parts (ABS sheet, cup holder, power port, USB port, etc.) that can be assembled and mounted in to the existing space.
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post #19 of 20 Old 03-25-2019, 12:56 PM
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Hello
Ashtray are still possible to be made, please contact me in private message or on a famous auction website
i nont want to talk about it here because I have been banned from Fchat for this reason
kind regards
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post #20 of 20 Old 03-26-2019, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fana348 France View Post
Hello
Ashtray are still possible to be made, please contact me in private message or on a famous auction website
i nont want to talk about it here because I have been banned from Fchat for this reason
kind regards
Hello,


welcome into the family "banned by R.L." ....

My compliments wonderful works you do ...

I also use solidworks for design.

Fabio

Fiammenghi Engineering
High Performance Exhaust Systems and Car Parts
Contact info: [email protected]
Website: http://fiammenghiengineering.it
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