F355 Clutch fluid - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 31 Old 10-13-2015, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
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Clutch fluid

Ok i am going to sound stupid but wheres the clutch fluid reservoir and what are you using for fluid? I am drawing a blank right now.

I missed that brake and clutch use the same i guess.

I would assume this is true for the f1 as well.
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post #2 of 31 Old 10-13-2015, 05:11 PM
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Grant, the brakes and clutch share the same resivior.

Motul RBF600 (DOT 4) Is what I'm using
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post #3 of 31 Old 10-13-2015, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
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Ha your too fast. I just noticed that in the manual but you caught me first.
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post #4 of 31 Old 10-13-2015, 05:14 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks.
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post #5 of 31 Old 10-13-2015, 09:37 PM
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Grant- The F1 fluid reservoir and brake fluid reservoir are separate on the F1 355s and use completely different fluids. Your throw-out bearing has different seals from the 3 pedal F355 seals and those are only compatible with what is basically synthetic automatic transmission fluid. Your OM calls for Shell Donax TX, but this is hard to find. Your tech can recommend a good substitute. I use Tutela CS Speed, very expensive and sold by Ricambi.

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post #6 of 31 Old 10-14-2015, 12:44 AM
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Terry, thanks for pointing that out. I've been working on nothing but 95's lately and I keep forgetting Grant has an F1
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post #7 of 31 Old 10-14-2015, 07:29 AM
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Just a thought: A lot of high temp racing brake fluids are great for racing applications that require high boiling temps and the fluids get changed out weekly but some of the high temp racing fluids don't lubricate as well and are harder on the seals and they attract moisture at a very high rate. Not a problem for racecars since they might only see 5000 miles before everything on the brakes get rebuilt and the fluids get changed out every race weekend.

The engineers at Tilton recommended using the cheapest brake fluid I could find for the clutch since the fluid in the clutch system doesn't see the high temps the racing brakes do. If you are hard on the brakes and think you need the high temp its better to have it but if you are just driving on the street and want to keep the car for a long time you may be better going with whatever the OEM recommends

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post #8 of 31 Old 10-16-2015, 07:13 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Grant- The F1 fluid reservoir and brake fluid reservoir are separate on the F1 355s and use completely different fluids. Your throw-out bearing has different seals from the 3 pedal F355 seals and those are only compatible with what is basically synthetic automatic transmission fluid. Your OM calls for Shell Donax TX, but this is hard to find. Your tech can recommend a good substitute. I use Tutela CS Speed, very expensive and sold by Ricambi.
Terry so it gets the same fluid as the F1 reservoir hydraulic system?
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post #9 of 31 Old 10-17-2015, 04:45 AM
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Terry so it gets the same fluid as the F1 reservoir hydraulic system?
Grant, the clutch and gear selection actuator use the same fluid, from the same resivior. The clutch actuation and gear selection actuation is all part of the same hydraulic circuit.
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post #10 of 31 Old 10-17-2015, 07:32 AM
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Dave- Affirmative, instead of brake fluid operating the annular throw-out bearing like it does on a three pedal Ferrari, hydraulic fluid (synthetic ATF) at 800-900 psi operates the clutch and also moves the shifter forks. There are five high pressure hoses that provide the impetus for both the clutch and transmission.

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post #11 of 31 Old 10-18-2015, 03:14 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Terry i think thats what i meant.
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post #12 of 31 Old 10-18-2015, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Terry i think thats what i meant.
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post #13 of 31 Old 10-19-2015, 07:28 AM
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Bleeding or fluid replacement....

Keep in mind that with the F1 car, any fluid service/periodic maintenance really requires an SD-1, SD-2 or equivalent tool to do the job correctly. Sample SD-2 screen shown for a 360 that I'm doing an annual service on. The OM and WSM are very lax in the frequency in which these services should be done.
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post #14 of 31 Old 10-19-2015, 07:33 AM
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Man, I need to land me one of those SD's

As a side note, I was bleeding brakes / clutch yesterday for a 95. Using a vacuum bleeder for the first time. Not sure I love it (yet). It seems as air gets sucked in around the bleeder screw threads and causes bubbles in the line which makes it difficult to know when the line has been bleed. I had to cut it short yesterday so I need to finish at a latter date. Also seems like a lot of fluid waste using the vacuum bleeder.

EDIT: I think I'm going to look into pressure bleeders - what do you guys think? Seems like a better way to go than vacuum..
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post #15 of 31 Old 10-19-2015, 08:03 AM
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Pressure bleeding is far more efficient....and far less hassle.
Motive makes decent, inexpensive unit that will last for a few uses. I use a Branick unit that will last a lifetime. Not cheap....but built well and a better design.

Automotive Tools and Tire Equipment : Branick Industries

Regarding the SD unit, it can also be used to bleed the brakes on these cars by actuating the ABS/traction control unit...

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Last edited by David @ FluentInFerrari; 10-19-2015 at 08:11 AM.
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post #16 of 31 Old 10-19-2015, 08:07 AM
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David- Affirmative, like coolant changes, it took Ferrari a long time to figure out you need to change F1 fluid every 3 years. Finally, in the 599 maintenance schedule, they changed the interval to 3 years. Note they still just say check and top up here for coolant, which would lead to all kinds of long term problems.

After removing the actuator to do the bleeding, it also takes a special tool to align the actuator when it is replaced, no?
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post #17 of 31 Old 10-19-2015, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David @ FluentInFerrari View Post
Pressure bleeding is far more efficient....and far less hassle.
Motive makes decent, inexpensive unit that will last for a few uses. I use a Branick unit that will last a lifetime. Not cheap....but built well and a better design.

Automotive Tools and Tire Equipment : Branick Industries

Regarding the SD unit, it can also be used to bleed the brakes on these cars by actuating the ABS/traction control unit...
David,

Looking into the Branick unit - thank you. What adapter is needed for the 355?

Also, do I understand this correct: Do you fill the new brake fluid into the pressure bleeder and then it fills the car's break reservoir? If so, do I need much more fluid in the pressure bleeder than the car will use? Just looking to understand the operation and amount of fluid needed.

Thanks in advance.
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post #18 of 31 Old 10-19-2015, 09:33 AM
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What adapter is needed for the 355?
You'll need the only standard BMW, Audi cap as used from about 1976 onward...(I don't know their PN as I'm using a cap from Motive that I adapted.)

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Also, do I understand this correct: Do you fill the new brake fluid into the pressure bleeder and then it fills the car's brake reservoir? If so, do I need much more fluid in the pressure bleeder than the car will use?
What makes this set-up so nice is that the brake fluid is isolated from the atmosphere. The bottom half of the unit is pressurized with air. The top half is filled with brake fluid, which holds just over a gallon. The halves are separated by a diaphragm. I typically fill the unit up and do as many cars as needed until no more fresh fluid is available. This becomes obvious as no more fluid will flow from the brake/clutch nipples. So, to best answer your question; yes, add more than you'll need to the unit. If when done, you end up over the fill line on your reservoir, the unit comes with a mini "turkey baster" to remove the excess fluid.

I'm of the school that these cars should have their brake fluid flushed annually. This tool makes it easy and efficient.

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post #19 of 31 Old 10-19-2015, 09:41 AM
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David - Thank you. I'm sold and am buying one. Thanks again for helping me get to that $100K mark in shop equipment

All joking aside, I greatly appreciate the tip and the endorsement of the product. I believe in doing things correctly, with the proper tools. The $350.00 for this is easily justified with the piece of mind and time savings. I don't even want to tell you how much time I spent yesterday screwing around with the vacuum bleeder and getting annoyed. At least I can use that tool (with out the vacuum) to collect the fluid from the bleeders. And, I can also use it to suck up any overfill instead of the turkey baster.
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post #20 of 31 Old 10-19-2015, 10:28 AM
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The plot thickens... They don't know which screw adapter will work - he is guessing #19 but they are out of stock. I need to research / measure the cap on the 355 to determine what thread it is...
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