F355 355 Axle Flange Bolt Torque - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 21 Old 08-12-2015, 04:40 AM Thread Starter
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355 Axle Flange Bolt Torque

Does anyone know the torque in ft/lbs of the axle flange mounting bolt?
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post #2 of 21 Old 08-12-2015, 05:07 AM
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It's in the WSM - See image. See Red box
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post #3 of 21 Old 08-12-2015, 08:15 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Dave. So that's 75 ft/lbs
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post #4 of 21 Old 08-12-2015, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by marioz View Post
Thanks Dave. So that's 75 ft/lbs

My apologies - I believe I posted the wrong section.

See this: But, two values stated 78 & 95
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post #5 of 21 Old 08-12-2015, 09:47 AM Thread Starter
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Dave you had the right one the first time in D section & it shows the installation on page D53 & 54 of manual. I am just a confused on the daN m 10,3.
I put 10,3 in conversion table as Nm & it converts to 7.59 Ft/lbs. I take it that would be 76 ft/lbs

The second one in F section must be for the 6 axle bolts that bolt to flange. I don't know why there are 2 different torques though.

78nm converts to 57 ft/lbs

95nm to 70 ft/lbs
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post #6 of 21 Old 08-12-2015, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marioz View Post
Dave you had the right one the first time in D section & it shows the installation on page D53 & 54 of manual. I am just a confused on the daN m 10,3.
I put 10,3 in conversion table as Nm & it converts to 7.59 Ft/lbs. I take it that would be 76 ft/lbs

The second one in F section must be for the 6 axle bolts that bolt to flange. I don't know why there are 2 different torques though.

78nm converts to 57 ft/lbs

95nm to 70 ft/lbs

Mario, i thought you were asking about the axle bolts. I think the first one is the single bolt inside the hub - correct?

For that one, it's daNm which is deca Newton Meter so that would be 75.9 Foot Pounds.

PS, see this: http://www.lorenz-messtechnik.de/eng...alculation.php
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post #7 of 21 Old 08-12-2015, 10:12 AM
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Many errors and assumptions here...

-The WSM is loaded with torque errors.
-It would be highly unusual to ever find a 12 x 1.50mm fastener on a Ferrari.
-That said, that torque figure is incorrect
-The bolt is 12x1.25mm, so the torque figure listed (for the 10mm fastener) would also be suspect
-And if one were to torque a 10mm bolt to that figure, stripped threads/broken hardware would result.

So, the correct answer is: The fastener is 12x1.25mm with a torque spec of 57 lb-ft for the differential output flange.
Different torque figures for the same size/thread pitch bolt are due to the grade used. The CV flange bolts are Gr 12.9. Most of the other drive train fasteners are 10.9 or less.

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post #8 of 21 Old 08-12-2015, 10:28 AM
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David,

Where are you obtaining your torque values from? It's my experience that you will find varying results. Are you using SAE standards?

EDIT: I've done some research including speaking with my test lab and I cannot find consistent values because clamp load must be considered and that is a design specification.

Last edited by dave rocks; 08-12-2015 at 11:47 AM.
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post #9 of 21 Old 08-12-2015, 05:41 PM
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I am in the middle of this job as well. Are we referring to the 13mm 12pt bolts that secure the axle to the transmission?
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post #10 of 21 Old 08-12-2015, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badabing View Post
I am in the middle of this job as well. Are we referring to the 13mm 12pt bolts that secure the axle to the transmission?
Neil, The OP asked about the single bolt in the center of the flange. That is the value I posted but by accident as I originally thought he meant axle bolts which I posted second and what you are looking for.
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post #11 of 21 Old 08-12-2015, 07:56 PM Thread Starter
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Yes I was referring to the single bolt that holds flange.

Why is everything so confusing with Ferrari.
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post #12 of 21 Old 08-13-2015, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badabing View Post
Are we referring to the 13mm 12pt bolts that secure the axle to the transmission?
Here's where some of the confusion begins. There are no 13mm bolts anywhere on a Ferrari. There are 8mm bolts with a 13mm "wrench size" head on them. As I recall, the bolts which secure the CV joint to the differential axle flange are 10mm in diameter, with a 13mm head on them. Why is this important? As Ferrari uses standard DIN or SAE language, you can double check the torque figure given in the WSM against the description given as well as the size specified. For future clarity, bolt size always refers to its diameter....

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Originally Posted by marioz View Post
Yes I was referring to the single bolt that holds flange
I specified that torque figured earlier as it is a 12x1.25mm bolt.

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Originally Posted by marioz View Post
Why is everything so confusing with Ferrari.
The WSM was designed for someone who is a expert level tech with a comprehensive understanding on how these things work. Throw in some very poor translations by non-mechanical folks and near zero proof reading, you get what you get. Once you accept these conditions, they're really not that confusing, just annoying.

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Last edited by David @ FluentInFerrari; 08-13-2015 at 03:58 AM.
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post #13 of 21 Old 08-13-2015, 04:26 AM Thread Starter
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thank you David & Dave
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post #14 of 21 Old 08-13-2015, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David @ FluentInFerrari View Post
Here's where some of the confusion begins. There are no 13mm bolts anywhere on a Ferrari.
Most non-engineers or should I say folks without technical backgrounds often refer to the bolt by the head size. I'm not sure that always means they believe that is the size....

Quote:
Originally Posted by David @ FluentInFerrari View Post
For future clarity, bolt size always refers to its diameter....
Correct.


David, I'm still interested on where you obtain your torque values from. It would be interesting to compare that chart with others. I little searching yesterday and I could not find 2 that match.

I'll see if one of my GM buddies can provide me some standards from the automotive industry.
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post #15 of 21 Old 08-13-2015, 06:23 AM
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For anyone interested, this is a very detailed document:

http://www.fastenal.com/content/docu...renceGuide.pdf

Note: The torque "suggestions" given in this document are based on 75% proof load for the bolts based on grade. This is another reason why it's up to the manufacture to determine torque values.

It would sure be nice if the WSM was reliable...
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post #16 of 21 Old 08-15-2015, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave rocks View Post
David, I'm still interested on where you obtain your torque values from. It would be interesting to compare that chart with others. I little searching yesterday and I could not find 2 that match.
The short answer is over 30 years of experience and many hundreds of cars. All of the data is there, it's just knowing where to find it and what's correct and what's not. Torque and all you'd ever want to know about metallurgy is well documented in the SAE ASTM and other similar type publications. . I have WSM and other tech data that spans 50 years of Ferrari. The hub set-up in question has been used for a very long and is not unique to the F355.

Dry, Lightly oiled, lubed, steel to steel, steel to aluminum, Steel to heli-coil in aluminum and on and on.... always taking into consideration fastener grade. These factors determine the torque applied. One can "feel" on a torque wrench when the fastener starts to yield. Ferrari torque is no different than anyone else's, once you define the parameters.

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post #17 of 21 Old 08-15-2015, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David @ FluentInFerrari View Post
Torque and all you'd ever want to know about metallurgy is well documented in the SAE ASTM and other similar type publications.
This is the SAE document: J1701M: Torque-Tension Tightening for Metric Series Fasteners - SAE International

I don't have that document - are you saying torque values are specified as standards within it?

Fastener technology is a science of it's own. I don't seem to recall consistent values since clamp load requirements can vary and that changes a torque requirement respectively.

I don't agree that the higher torque listed for the axle bolts would result in component failure although I'm not suggesting it's correct.

I have taken your excellent advice and downloaded the 360 manual. Much more detail compared to the 355 regarding this topic. Such as the specification of Molykote 1000, pre torque of 40 NM and final torque of 78 NM
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post #18 of 21 Old 08-15-2015, 04:01 PM
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post #19 of 21 Old 08-18-2015, 04:38 AM
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For those interested, my buddy was able to provide a copy of the SAE publication J1701M "Torque-Tension Tightening for Metric Series Fasteners"

It's a very good read. See attached
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File Type: pdf SAE_J1701M.pdf (4.16 MB, 432 views)
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post #20 of 21 Old 08-19-2015, 03:42 AM
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A good read or not, all of the torque figures for 10mm fasteners and larger are incorrect. Ferrari uses non-standard (for those sizes) fine threads. What that means is that if you follow those guidelines, fasteners will have insufficient torque.

And, although not mentioned, Ferrari frequently uses Heli-coils in their aluminum cases. This too can effect the torque value specified.

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