F355 CEL codes are real - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 155 Old 04-15-2015, 06:46 PM Thread Starter
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CEL codes are real

If any of you spend time on FChat you should be very familiar with "ghosts" and the OBDI is the best.....

Baloney!!! OBDII is a fantastic tool!

Last fall I got a CEL with P0432. Catalyst deficiency.

Possible an O2 sensor but I was told by friends behind me in a drive, they saw flakes coming from my exhaust.

Sure enough, left side cat is shot. Right side is intact but loose.

Metallic core cats on the way.

Moral of the thread: codes are real. No ghosts. Don't believe the baloney.
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post #2 of 155 Old 04-16-2015, 01:53 AM
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Catalyst efficiency-not quite deficiency LOL!

The codes are always real; they indicate a pending, or stored fault/unexpected parameter(s). What's not alway clear is what triggered the code. Diagnostic skills are still required, despite the miracles of the Internet. Without the debris emanating from the exhaust, a scope check on both the front and rear O2 sensors will tell you what's happening within that cat.

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post #3 of 155 Old 04-16-2015, 01:54 AM
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I agree that OBD II is a powerful diagnostic tool. I also believe that many of the so called problems reported as ghosts are because people don't understand the codes. In you case it was straight forward. But consider that I was getting the same code on my Toyota truck, low cat efficiency. I would clear the code and in a month or so it would come back. Finally, as the weather got warmer I got under the truck and found that there was a crack in a weld at the flange just behind the cat, but before the downstream O2 sensor. This was allowing excess air to be pulled into the exhaust and was making the downstream sensor see exhaust gases with a lot more O2 in it than there should have been. Replaced the pipe, no more codes.


The thing to remember is that the codes are given names by engineers to guide you in diagnosing the problems. In this case they call it cat efficiency below normal or something like that. But all it really means is that the post cat exhaust gas composition isn't what is expected. It's up to you to figure out why. And if the cat is bad, you still have to figure out why it went bad. With the 355 it's typical that the cat code breaks up on its own, but in other cases the cat going bad may be a symptom of another underlying problem.


But being that my 355 is a OBD I, 1995, 2.7, yep, they are the best.

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post #4 of 155 Old 04-16-2015, 02:57 AM Thread Starter
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Catalyst efficiency-not quite deficiency LOL!
Well, it's below threshold, that is deficient right?

And I posted this because had I just posted the code on Fchat, I guarantee some of the so called experts would have suggested right from the start that I check my connectors and replace them - the normal reply for codes which in their eyes are always " ghosts"

And John, to your point, regardless of trend, I am still concerned why these are blown being my car has less than 14K miles. My 95 cats are totally fine and that car has 26K....
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post #5 of 155 Old 04-16-2015, 03:57 AM
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Well, it's below threshold, that is deficient right?
Well, who can fault that logic?

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...so called experts would have suggested right from the start that I check my connectors and replace them - the normal reply for codes which in their eyes are always " ghosts"..
Needless parts replacement always trumps great diagnostic skills. I read that on the Internet, so it must be true.

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...I am still concerned why these are blown being my car has less than 14K miles. My 95 cats are totally fine and that car has 26K....
Excessive fuel, misfire conditions, cam timing by non-factory methods drive cat temps upwards.

FWIW, I have a 360 here with 10K miles that needs a cat due to an ongoing (unaddressed) misfire condition. Whoops!

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post #6 of 155 Old 04-16-2015, 04:59 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David @ FluentInFerrari View Post

Excessive fuel, misfire conditions, cam timing by non-factory methods drive cat temps upwards.
Possible excessive fuel - need to understand this and learn how to check it? No misfires - this car runs like a top - it's what some would call "a rape ape"

Last major was done by the best tech at Algar - cams where timed with a degree wheel. I trust Tony D.

In the 38XX miles of my ownership, I've had a flashing SDL twice and it quickly went away.

Here are some photos of the custom exhaust that came on the car. This made one hell of a job getting the cats off.
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post #7 of 155 Old 04-16-2015, 06:00 AM
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Codes are indeed very real, even when they are caused by "ghosts". The complication there lies in the fact that dirty grounds and connections in general and broken wires from mishandling things are common problems in these cars. Intermittent transfer of sensor data or adulterated data due to bad connections is a very real problem, and can require specific tooling and a good bit of time to track down.


The other factor is understanding the logic the ECU is using to produce the fault code. Sometimes the fault is a symptom, not the problem.


Enjoy your new performance catalysts!


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post #8 of 155 Old 04-16-2015, 06:26 AM Thread Starter
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Enjoy your new performance catalysts!
Thanks. I'm still exploring options. I want to see how much Ferrari metallic core cats are (probably too much, we shall see).
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post #9 of 155 Old 04-16-2015, 07:18 AM
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Love OBDll
Makes life so easy I forget how to use my old test equippment


EDIT

BTW, from what I read on the internet,,,,
Now you need valve guides and the cats got sucked back into the motor scoring the cyl walls so might as well sell the car for salvage

Don't forget to put summer air in your tires also


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post #10 of 155 Old 04-16-2015, 07:23 AM Thread Starter
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BTW, from what I read on the internet,,,,
Now you need valve guides and the cats got sucked back into the motor scoring the cyl walls so might as well sell the car for salvage

Don't forget to put summer air in your tires also


I was waiting for this, Tim
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post #11 of 155 Old 04-16-2015, 07:54 AM
 
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Mine threw a cel for the first time in 3 years... 153 and 159. I cleared them and it went away. A couple days later I got the came codes again cleared them and they havent come back..I'll wait and see if it happens again. What I wish is it had a Your headers have went to [email protected]@@ light. At just over 40k I worry thats coming and I want to know when it does.
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post #12 of 155 Old 04-16-2015, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silly View Post

BTW, from what I read on the internet,,,,
Now you need valve guides and the cats got sucked back into the motor scoring the cyl walls so might as well sell the car for salvage

Don't forget to put summer air in your tires also

All good advice, but don't let Dave forget about switching over the Shell-branded, dealer only, but highly recommended "summer formula" blinker fluid. It really made a difference in my Mondial 8 or at least, that what I heard on the Internet.
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post #13 of 155 Old 04-16-2015, 08:12 AM
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Thanks. I'm still exploring options. I want to see how much Ferrari metallic core cats are (probably too much, we shall see).
Dave,
Contact Alex at Daytona. He and I had a recent conversation regarding a company near him that may be able to supply replacement cores.

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post #14 of 155 Old 04-16-2015, 08:49 AM Thread Starter
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Dave,
Contact Alex at Daytona. He and I had a recent conversation regarding a company near him that may be able to supply replacement cores.
Thanks Dave. They are pretty close to me over the boarder.
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post #15 of 155 Old 04-16-2015, 09:11 AM
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I understand the process is different, but can't you also pull codes on an OBD1 car?
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post #16 of 155 Old 04-16-2015, 09:20 AM Thread Starter
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I understand the process is different, but can't you also pull codes on an OBD1 car?
Yes. the 95 has 2 ECU's and 2 MIL, one for each. I believe that you need to count the number of flashes to get the code while pressing a button on the ECU. I have no experience doing this however.
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post #17 of 155 Old 04-16-2015, 09:59 AM
 
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Dave,
Please keep us posted on the CAT (the one on the Fcar) replacement. Interested to know what you get and how it works out. Thanks.
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post #18 of 155 Old 04-16-2015, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
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Dave,
Please keep us posted on the CAT (the one on the Fcar) replacement. Interested to know what you get and how it works out. Thanks.

Will do and yes, I'm surrounded with Cat stories right now
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post #19 of 155 Old 04-16-2015, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 355dreamer View Post
I understand the process is different, but can't you also pull codes on an OBD1 car?


The ECU's on the OBD1 cars have ALDL connectors for the factory tool to connect to and retrieve fault codes and operating parameters and carry out manual actuations, just like OBD2 cars. The differences are that OBD2 uses federally mandated, standardized communication protocols so generic scan tools have a reasonable amount of access into the ECU's, whereas the OBD1 cars require the use of manufacturer specific tooling and the level of detail of data that can be acquired. The OBD2 cars have a lot more data output and more complex operating logic.


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post #20 of 155 Old 04-16-2015, 11:14 AM
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There are about 30 codes that can be read on an 2.7 US car without any special tools. Federally mandated OBD II codes are associated with emissions. There are a tons of codes that are manufacture specific and, while a generic OBD II reader may or may not retrieve them, they are useless if you can not get the manufactures code designation.

If you are going to tell someone how to remove a bolt you should at least know which way to turn the wrench.
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