F355 Sand castings to die castings? - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 27 Old 01-21-2015, 07:02 AM Thread Starter
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Sand castings to die castings?

Anyone know when Ferrari made the switch to die castings for the 355? Specifically the clutch housing?

My 95 is defenetly sand cast as it's very course. I need to check my 98 but I've seen later years with a smooth die cast.
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post #2 of 27 Old 01-21-2015, 07:51 AM
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Dave- Heads and blocks are still sand castings. Some components may be more efficient with dies when extensive passages are not required.

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post #3 of 27 Old 01-21-2015, 07:57 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Dave- Heads and blocks are still sand castings. Some components may be more efficient with dies when extensive passages are not required.
Thanks Terry, I figured that. I guess I'm wondering when they made the change to the clutch housing. I think the CAM covers are also die cast?
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post #4 of 27 Old 01-21-2015, 09:05 AM
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Dave- Yup, and the die can have any finish you like.

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post #5 of 27 Old 01-23-2015, 06:35 PM
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Terry just about the whole engine is sand cast i thought. You guys probably saw that episode on the 599. Maybe i missed something but that was what i thought i saw.

I thougt it was the block, cams, head, they didnt show the cam covers or crank I don't think. They just showed the crank install and the cams being ground i thought. Cant b sure i think my memory could be going.
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post #6 of 27 Old 01-23-2015, 09:44 PM
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Grant- The cams and cranks are turned from billet steel. The intake manifolds look like they are sand-cast, too, I believe, because of all the passages. Many other parts are die cast.

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post #7 of 27 Old 01-23-2015, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
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The crank is made from billet? Wow, no wonder they are so expensive....

IIRC, they were forged when I worked for GM.
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post #8 of 27 Old 01-24-2015, 11:38 AM
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Dave- They were last time I checked. Could be a forging by now.

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post #9 of 27 Old 01-24-2015, 11:53 AM Thread Starter
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Dave- They were last time I checked. Could be a forging by now.
The amount a machining a crankshaft from billet seems prohibitive - it's certainly not practical.
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post #10 of 27 Old 01-24-2015, 06:43 PM
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Forging provides more strenght too does it not?
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post #11 of 27 Old 01-24-2015, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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Forging provides more strenght too does it not?
Big Time
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post #12 of 27 Old 01-25-2015, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
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Forging provides more strength too does it not?
Not necessarily so...Material choice and heat treating have a huge effect on the final outcome. Ferrari crankshafts are incredibly strong and it is extremely rare to see a problem with one.

And, if memory serves me correctly, the crankshaft cylindrical slug comes from a forging....

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Last edited by David @ FluentInFerrari; 01-25-2015 at 06:49 AM.
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post #13 of 27 Old 01-25-2015, 10:04 AM
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David- You can imagine if someone used something like a billet of 154CM (crucible melt) steel for a crank. Would wear out the cutting tools pretty quickly. All depends on the steel you use whether forged is tougher or not. 154CM is an aerospace steel used in turbine engine parts and knife-making, Rockwell 62-63 in toughness.

Billet turned cranks were always a Ferrari selling point in the olden days.

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post #14 of 27 Old 01-25-2015, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Billet turned cranks were always a Ferrari selling point in the olden days.
Dear Terry,

Like this one.

Best regards,
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post #15 of 27 Old 01-25-2015, 10:23 AM Thread Starter
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Terry, the amount of metal removal machining a crank from billet is really massive not to mention the amount of stresses removed durning that process.

I've never heard of Rockwell scale in toughness, it's a hardness scale in my understanding and the crank certainly is only case hardened or it would be too brittle, especially at 60 on the Rockwell C scale. The only materials I heat treat that hard (through hard) are A2, D2, S7 and 440C stainless steels all for tooling applications (wear).
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post #16 of 27 Old 01-25-2015, 10:25 AM Thread Starter
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Dear Terry,

Like this one.

Best regards,
Robert,
What is this from?
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post #17 of 27 Old 01-25-2015, 10:52 AM
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Dear Dave,

Please see: http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/pr...eries-2-a.html
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post #18 of 27 Old 01-25-2015, 10:58 AM
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Rockwell pertains to hardness, as Dave stated. A Ferrari crankshaft, after machining, is Nitrided. This process leaves the crankshaft surface hardened to about Rockwell 57.

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post #19 of 27 Old 01-25-2015, 11:00 AM Thread Starter
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Robert, that car is just amazing!!!

Maybe it's the flu getting to me but that crank looks like it's for a 4 cylinder.
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post #20 of 27 Old 01-25-2015, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave rocks View Post
Maybe it's the flu getting to me but that crank looks like it's for a 4 cylinder.
Dear Dave,

Yes, four cylinders, displacement 1984.85 cc, 172 BHP at 7,000 rpm, slightly detuned from 1954 F1 553 motor.

Best regards,

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Past: 500 Mondial S2 0556(0446)/MD owned 58 years from June 1960 to August 2018
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