348 problem at startup - more detail now! - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 12 Old 01-17-2005, 01:40 AM Thread Starter
 
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348 problem at startup - more detail now!

Here's the original description of what happens when I try and start the car (hot or cold makes no difference):

"At the moment when I start the car it idles rough, and in the background of the engine noise you can hear a bom....bom...bom, almost like a miss-fire sound. Black smoke can also be seen coming from the exhaust if you look closely. After about 2 or 3 minutes the idle settles down and the smoke disappears. Also, this whole startup problem occurs no matter how long the engine might have already been running, ie as soon as you stop it and re-start the same problem occurs."

After countless hours in the shop my mechanic is at his wits end, though he seems to have the problem somewhat isolated. To date he has done the following:
1) put in new coolant temp and oxygen sensors
2) swapped the left / right ECU's over
3) swapped the fuel injectors over
4) swapped the fuel pumps over (also verfied that they're pumping at the correct pressure)
5) checked the fuel pressure regulator

The left coil was disconnected resulting in smooth engine start up of the right bank of 4 cylinders with no mis-firing, no smoke burning, generally everything looked fine. Reconnecting the left coil caused the problems to return. My mechanic removed the fuel injectors to actually see how they performed when starting....the left side apparently went crazy, with "huge" quantities of fuel injected. He said to paint the picture properly you need to imagine the joint where the exhaust manifold meets the muffler (i think), there was petrol dripping out from there.

This seems to fit the scenario I described at the top. At start up the left bank of the engine is being flooded with petrol causing ignition difficulties. The 2-3 minutes it takes to settle down is probably the time it takes to burn off the excess fuel, and hence the reason for the black smoke on start up. And finally, to cause more confusion, this all happens each and every time the car is stopped and restarted, almost as if the start mode of the computer/car is stuck or not functioning correctly.

Please, please, if anyone has any suggestions, no matter how crazy or far fetched, let me have them. As I said my mechanic is fast approaching the time when he'd be willing to try just about anything.

Cheers
Warren
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post #2 of 12 Old 01-17-2005, 12:44 PM
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engine

you should check the engine timing sensor fitted ont the intake camshaft, it send a signal to the ecu of each bank of cylinders.
check too the tcp and engine revs sensor on the tooth wheel. (where the 2 belts for alternator an AC compressor are. you must have 0.35 to 0.9 between the sensor and the wheel. or some time durty because of oil coming from camshaft seals damaged.
check and compare ohms resistor of each spark plug whire.
hope it help you
I have workshop manual if you need some more details...
nico
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post #3 of 12 Old 01-18-2005, 05:50 PM
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Sounds like a fuel injection system issue. The fact that it seems to be just the left bank should I guess rule out the FI getting bad input from an external sensor, as you'd expect that would affect both banks.

What exactly does the FI system do at startup (whether hot or cold)? I mean what circuits, etc does it use? It sounds like the LH gallery is getting an signal to over-deliver fuel, so I'd get the FI main units checked by a FI (Bosch?) expert.
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post #4 of 12 Old 01-18-2005, 08:22 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks to both "fana348 France" and "4kids3fish" for your suggestions. I'll hopefully be taking my car over to the local Bosch dealership in the next day or so.

I'll post another reply after Bosch have given me their thoughts.

Cheers
Warren

ps - "4kids3fish" how's over there in Sydney? I'm actually from Perth!!!
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post #5 of 12 Old 01-18-2005, 11:29 PM
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Damn frantic at the moment!
I'm currently handling the work of a colleague who's actually holidaying in Perth!
Plus I'm away myself from tonight, but the mail server has just decided to go on holidays itself! At least there's still a couple of hours left to fix up some sort of temporary replacement! Then I'm outta here 8)
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post #6 of 12 Old 01-18-2005, 11:42 PM Thread Starter
 
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Well enjoy your break mate! I, on the other hand, will be racking both mine and my mechanic's brains over my injector problems. I've had my 348 for 7 months now and haven't yet enjoyed the experience.

I had the major engine service done, incl water pump, belts, put in a brand new clutch .... and the list goes on and on. Now we're down to this damn pain in the arse problem. If we ever get this sorted I'll be taking it to Ferrari over here in Dubai to give it a new paint job. I'm aiming to have the car restored to all its former glory!!!

Then, if all goes well I'll be shipping it off to Perth where I hope to sell it. I'll be asking A$135-145k, so if you know anyone who might be interested.....

;-)
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post #7 of 12 Old 01-19-2005, 03:26 AM
 
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Why won't you keep the car?
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post #8 of 12 Old 01-19-2005, 03:38 AM Thread Starter
 
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Simple reason really, to make a pretty big profit on it. I spent about a year and a half researching Australia's private car import laws and found that the numbers add up to my being able to buy and sell Ferrari's for a considerable profit.

The only real catch is that I, as and Australian living abroad, have to own, register and insure the car for 12 months before I can import it.

I've always dreamed of owning a Ferrari, and still can't really believe I got one. But, if everything goes to plan, I'll have sold my car by sometime around August after which I'll buy a 360 Modena spider. And you guessed it, own it, drive it, and enjoy it for a year before shipping on to Aus for sale. The way I figure it I won't just have the pleasure owning my dream, but maybe have the luxury of chainging them over every 15 months or so.

It's been a great adventure / learning curve so far filled with plenty of highs and lows (as you can imagine by reading my first post above). Before my 348 I didn't have a clue about cars. 7 months on and I've spent countless hourse reading about the mechanics of 348's, as well as established a great relationship with Ferrari Service of Costa Mesa in Los Angeles. The guys in LA ship parts to me here in Dubai whenver I need them.

My ultimate dream would be to be in a position, maybe as soon as 3 years from now, to make a bid at buying myself an Enzo (there are 4 or 5 running arond town at the moment).
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post #9 of 12 Old 01-19-2005, 03:46 AM
 
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That is a pretty intersting idea.I hope it will work out for you
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post #10 of 12 Old 01-19-2005, 04:06 AM Thread Starter
 
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Well so far phase 1 has been ok. I mean I now have sufficiently good local contacts in Dubai to be able to source high quality second hand Ferrari's. I've got parts supply contacts in the USA which have been fantastically reliable and fairly priced.

Phase 2 will be the import process into Australia which will happen late May / early June. I expect / hope there won't be too many nasty surprises here as I've got a friend who has already been through the private import process last year.

Finally, and probably the most critical and worrying, phase 3 will involve the selling of the car. My brother in-law and father are my "guys onthe ground" in Australia. They'll take care of all of the organisational / logistical needs. This will be a learning curve again!

BUt don't underestimate the power of motivation.......the quicker we sell my 348 the quicker we get hold of a 360 spider ;-))
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post #11 of 12 Old 06-25-2005, 11:34 PM
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Re: 348 problem at startup - more detail now!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren348tb
Here's the original description of what happens when I try and start the car (hot or cold makes no difference):

"At the moment when I start the car it idles rough, and in the background of the engine noise you can hear a bom....bom...bom, almost like a miss-fire sound. Black smoke can also be seen coming from the exhaust if you look closely. After about 2 or 3 minutes the idle settles down and the smoke disappears. ...

Please, please, if anyone has any suggestions, no matter how crazy or far fetched, let me have them. As I said my mechanic is fast approaching the time when he'd be willing to try just about anything.

Cheers
Warren
Right at startup you've got additional things going on (e.g. cold start equipment, ECU computer-learning/re-learning curve, etc.).

But I would *bet* money that one mass air flow sensor is set too rich compared to its identical twin on the other side of the engine.

To measure the mass air flow setting, remove the rubber-covered data cable to both maf sensors and put an Ohm-meter to pins #1 and #6 (the outermost pins on both sides of the data line). The stock setting is 383 Ohms.

Both mafs should have the same value.

To adjust the Ohm value, pop off the blue cap and use a regular screwdriver to turn clockwise or counter-clockwise. Then measure the resistance value again with your Ohm-meter.

My guess is that setting both to the same value, preferably 383 Ohms, will eliminate your startup problem...though you may have to make your mixture leaner to get rid of the black smoke that you were seeing on startup.

Cheap and quick fix, though. just need an Ohm-meter and a screwdriver.
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post #12 of 12 Old 07-24-2005, 10:55 PM
 
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Warren 348tb.

I was just curious as to how you were going with your car import plan?

I only ask, as I have recently disposed on my 348 in Perth and was interested to see if you got the $ you had talked of.

Looking forward to hearing from you
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