F355 Vibration in rear while turning? - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 21 Old 03-21-2014, 04:27 PM Thread Starter
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Vibration in rear while turning?

Ok, so after getting an engine-out and new muffler, new tires etc, I took a U-turn, and I heard this "Wrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" noise and vibration I could feel in the gas pedal, brake, shifter and in the seat as well. (throughout the whole car, really) It feels like it is coming from the rear. It does it when turning left or right, though it seemed to start on left hand turns. I hear a harmonic vibration as well. It is the same frequency as the exhaust note, if you could imagine. This happened a week after I got the car back.

I am trying to rule out some things. My friend took a guess and said I might simply need to re-torque the aluminum wheels, which "are prone to loosening". I did just get 4 new tires.

I don't think it is a wheel bearing(s). That would probably be present constantly right?

I think the engine mounts are OK. I think the mechanic would have noticed worn items when doing the belt service.

Perhaps it is the axle or a related bearing? They did just replace the axle boots in the rear.

The car is now back at the dealership because of a blown radiator. (Sucks, yes) I am bummed.
Anyone else ever have this issue? Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 21 Old 03-21-2014, 04:39 PM
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The wheels are NOT prone to loosening. They were either correctly tightened or they weren't.


Are the new tires the same size as the old tires?


Look at where the cats go over the top of the transmission mounts. They often hit there.
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post #3 of 21 Old 03-21-2014, 06:04 PM
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Check the direction arrows on the tires and make sure they point forward. Saw a 360 come from FOW with them backwards.



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post #4 of 21 Old 03-21-2014, 10:50 PM
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Brian, Ed- Also possible it is limited slip chatter, no? A tiny amount of Redline LSD additive could fix that if it is the cause.

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post #5 of 21 Old 03-22-2014, 12:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
The wheels are NOT prone to loosening. They were either correctly tightened or they weren't.


Are the new tires the same size as the old tires?


Look at where the cats go over the top of the transmission mounts. They often hit there.
Thanks for the info...the tires are the same size. 225 40/ 18 265 40/18 BF Goodrich Sport-Comp 2 (BTW $635 delivered, Tire rack- great price if you need new tread..)

I did check the transmission mounts. Are those the bolts that stick up from the frame on that cross bar? I did not see any marks on the cats. Was I looking in the correct place? It makes a lot of sense that this would be the issue....the vibration or "WRRRRRRRRR" is the same frequency as the exhaust note. It is almost like a harmonic resonance ....in the same key. It seems to get worse as I turn sharper turns. I did circles and figure 8's in an empty parking lot...and it is both sides . It does not do it on every turn, just sharper turns with more G-s.
Thanks a lot for your feedback. I will keep you posted as I find out more.
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post #6 of 21 Old 03-22-2014, 12:25 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Brian, Ed- Also possible it is limited slip chatter, no? A tiny amount of Redline LSD additive could fix that if it is the cause.

Hey Taz, not sure what the chatter would sound like. I DO have a ticking-rattle at idle I am also trying to diagnose. It sounds as if it is coming from the clutch housing, perhaps a cat. I can't tell for the life of me. Perhaps I should make a separate thread for this? I figured I would bring it up. It happens at idle, but goes away as soon as I chirp the gas a bit. Sounds sort of like an exhaust mount rattle but it's not that. Sometimes it goes away as the car warms up. Sometimes it doesn't. Ever hear of this?

I am determined to sort out all the bugs in my new car, no matter what it takes.

In a way I have been a bit hesitant to post all of these little rattles issues, since I was quite convinced I got a great deal on my car for $45K. Now, after sinking a ton of money into her...
here I am replacing a radiator $920, the main oil line $1300. The main oil line was dripping about 1 drop every 3 days, and my main seal is dropping a drop every 2 days. I was advised by Ferrari to just keep an eye on the main seal leak (very small) and to replace the main oil line that connects to the oil cooler, since it is something I don't want to take chances on.

You get what you pay for.
After this new issue with the oil line and radiator....I have put approx 12-13K into belts, axle boots, tires, AC upgrade, e-brake, and a few other small items.

The car is worth more than I have put into her, but not by much.
Sigh.
One day I will have this all worked out.
Thanks guys. -Brian
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post #7 of 21 Old 03-22-2014, 02:00 PM
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Brian- Good news is you will know exactly where you are when you finish. Many of the higher priced cars could have had the same or similar problems, or even the dreaded soft valve guides. Eventually you will find the little rattles, like exhaust hangers, plastic trim on the steering column, etc.

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post #8 of 21 Old 03-22-2014, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Brian- Good news is you will know exactly where you are when you finish. Many of the higher priced cars could have had the same or similar problems, or even the dreaded soft valve guides. Eventually you will find the little rattles, like exhaust hangers, plastic trim on the steering column, etc.
Taz... I agree.
Instead of putting 5-7K into a 60K car, I am putting 15 K into a 45K car. The nice thing is I have a fresh clutch, tires, belts, fluids, oil line, radiator, axle boots, no stickies (fixed them easily), new AC, no CEL or SDL anymore, a fixed e-brake, new bonnet struts,

Here's whats left:
Top wont open
rattle at idle
Vibration on turns
Alarm beeps 4x when armed (I think it is one of the door sensors)
Sometimes the idle chugs when the fans turn on, which is often, but it catches itself. I recently realized I drive with my AC/ heat compressor on....I thought that when the STOP button is NOT lit up, that it is off. I was wrong apparently. It should be lit up to turn it off, correct?

I want to solve all of these things. I am determined. My VISA card is not very happy with me, tho.

But there is NOTHING like owning a Ferrari F 355
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post #9 of 21 Old 03-22-2014, 09:39 PM
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Brian- Normally when you turn on the A/C, idle speed increases slightly. Not sure that is true of Ferraris. On mine, the compressor is on all the time except when the ambient temperature is less than 59 F. On yours, that button, when depressed, does shut off the compressor, and, if in auto on both outside switches, the fans, too. Out of Auto modes with button depressed, you control the air distribution with the left switch and fan speed with the right one. So the button should light up, telling you the compressor is turned off. On most modern cars, it is the opposite, where depressing the AC button turns on the compressor. Jan's GL 550 is like that.

For the rattle at idle, try using a piece of hose to search for the noise. One ear on one hose end and move the other (hose end, not ear) to isolate the noise. Actually works pretty well.

Affirmative, four beeps indicates one (or more) panel including doors, luggage compartment lid, and engine cover is not closed or has a bad sensor. The system stll auto-locks itself, with the immobilizer activating 120 seconds after the 4 beep and light flash warning, and the alarm 180 seconds after the warning. Autolock does not affect the door locks, just the immoblilizer and alarm. You might try having someone press on the two lid panels while locking to see if a microswitch is out of adjustment. If no four beeps, that is the one. Alarm may go off once the pressure on the panel is released, so be ready or disarm before releasing the pressure.

Taz
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post #10 of 21 Old 03-23-2014, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Brian- Normally when you turn on the A/C, idle speed increases slightly. Not sure that is true of Ferraris. On mine, the compressor is on all the time except when the ambient temperature is less than 59 F. On yours, that button, when depressed, does shut off the compressor, and, if in auto on both outside switches, the fans, too. Out of Auto modes with button depressed, you control the air distribution with the left switch and fan speed with the right one. So the button should light up, telling you the compressor is turned off. On most modern cars, it is the opposite, where depressing the AC button turns on the compressor. Jan's GL 550 is like that.

For the rattle at idle, try using a piece of hose to search for the noise. One ear on one hose end and move the other (hose end, not ear) to isolate the noise. Actually works pretty well.

Affirmative, four beeps indicates one (or more) panel including doors, luggage compartment lid, and engine cover is not closed or has a bad sensor. The system stll auto-locks itself, with the immobilizer activating 120 seconds after the 4 beep and light flash warning, and the alarm 180 seconds after the warning. Autolock does not affect the door locks, just the immoblilizer and alarm. You might try having someone press on the two lid panels while locking to see if a microswitch is out of adjustment. If no four beeps, that is the one. Alarm may go off once the pressure on the panel is released, so be ready or disarm before releasing the pressure.



Your car has electronic throttles, his does not. Your experience is normal. If his A/C is causing an idle problem there is a tuning/running issue.
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post #11 of 21 Old 03-23-2014, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Brian, Ed- Also possible it is limited slip chatter, no? A tiny amount of Redline LSD additive could fix that if it is the cause.




Probably not. LSD noise usually is the worst in slow gentle turns. In a full lock turn the degree of slippage required stops the chatter in all but the worst cases.


It could be as simple as being new tires. Scrub them in some and see if the noise goes away
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post #12 of 21 Old 03-23-2014, 11:49 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the great feedback....I'm am learning a LOT about my car. I am wondering if new tires can produce such a strong vibration in the car? It almost feels like metal on metal vibration. I can't wait to find out what the dealership says. I am eager to post their findings, since they have the car.

My idle issue has made the car stall twice while coming off the throttle. It seems that if I am doing 15MPH or so, and I am on the brakes and in neutral (slowing to a stoplight for example), AND the fan kicks on at just the right moment (compressor on), it will stall. I was wondering if it was the idle control unit?

I once had a motorcycle that would do the same thing. It was a dirty air filter to blame. This car has new air filters, I believe, I should look.
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post #13 of 21 Old 03-23-2014, 11:53 AM Thread Starter
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I just realized that when I did the last ECU reset, my compressor was on. Did the car LEARN to set the idle a tad too low because of this? Is that possible? She idles great, right at 1000 RPM, maybe 1050. When the fan kicks on, it dips to 800 or so, then rises back up about 2 full seconds later.
My fan kicks on CONSTANTLY, and all temps are right at 12 O'clock. The fan kicks on right at 190.
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post #14 of 21 Old 03-23-2014, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Ready321now View Post
I just realized that when I did the last ECU reset, my compressor was on. Did the car LEARN to set the idle a tad too low because of this? Is that possible? She idles great, right at 1000 RPM, maybe 1050. When the fan kicks on, it dips to 800 or so, then rises back up about 2 full seconds later.
My fan kicks on CONSTANTLY, and all temps are right at 12 O'clock. The fan kicks on right at 190.


The ECU reset is for the most part internet nonsense. The car never stops learning, it never stops adapting. The idea it only does it for the first few minutes is ludicrous. If something was learned incorrectly at minute one it would be corrected at minute 5 or minute 50 or minute 5000. That is for 5.2 Motronic. 2.7 Motronic learns about 50% of its parameters at every start, the instant of startup.


Add to that, that if for some reason the ECU was doing something wrong and a reset was done it will in short order relearn it's way right back to where it was unless some action was taken to make it react differently (ie, a change of input).


There is something wrong for it to die from such a small load change. That is one of the diagnostic issues with engine management that adapts. It's adaptations cover up symptoms and by the time it can no longer adapt it's way out of a malfunction the symptoms then presented do not necessarily lead directly to the cause until you understand the system logic well enough to understand it's particular flavor of cause and effect.

Last edited by Brian; 03-23-2014 at 02:57 PM.
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post #15 of 21 Old 03-24-2014, 02:37 PM Thread Starter
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Update: Well, one thing is solved. The rattle I hear at idle was the Nouvalari side-bracket for the exhaust. They prodded on it a bit, and they fixed it. (Bent it, haha) Glad it was not my clutch or a bad cat.
One down, a few to go.
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post #16 of 21 Old 03-24-2014, 07:44 PM
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Brian- With Brian to help, maybe you can cure them all.

Taz
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post #17 of 21 Old 03-25-2014, 06:43 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Brian- With Brian to help, maybe you can cure them all.
You guys have been a huge help, with comprehensive, detailed and articulate answers. Much thanks.

I am committed to getting this car sorted out. At first I thought it was. Then, little things popped up. A tiny drip here, a rattle there...

For example: The clutch was done in Ohio, about 1500 miles ago, by an independent shop, before I bought it. I think they neglected to change the main seal. Ferrari said it wouldn't be worth it to tear it apart to swap a new one in...if it drips one drop every 2 days, it would be a pricy job, and I should just keep an eye on it. I agreed.

The axle boots both had tears. Changing out the axle boots wasn't cheap, but cheaper than a new axle.

The AC. They said we could upgrade it to the new kind...wasn't tooooo pricey, but I figured what the hell. Summer is coming, and I had not tried out the AC yet. Done.

Tires. Enough said. Left rear looked like hell.

E-brake light was always on. We adjusted the shoes. Solved. Now I have an e-brake.

The listing for the car said the timing belt was done in 2011. It wasn't, as far as I could prove. Made lots of calls. LOTS. Previous owner was unavailable. This car was bought at an auction by a Mitsubishi dealer. Ok. Let's do an engine out to be safe. $$$ Better than worrying about doing a rebuild if the belts jumped or snapped.

They suggested an alignment. Ok fine. Let's do it.

Now I have to replace the main oil line to the oil cooler...1 drop every few days...A very pricey job, prob 1700 with labor. Same with the radiator that blew up and sprayed coolant ALL OVER THE PLACE. I think these 2 items will be finished today.

They will see about that vibration in the rear while making tight turns. Question:

Would the fact that the shocks were on the "comfort setting" affect the body roll such that things would be rubbing/ contacting/ vibrating? I would think not. Kind of wish I turned the comfort setting off. (dash light OFF)....and then tried to make the tight turns. It might have helped me isolate what the hell that vibration is. WHATEVER it is....it's bad.

Going to ask them about the stalling when coming off the power, which happened twice.

The top not opening? Oh god. Who the hell knows. I am much more worried about the crucial stuff.

Thanks for all of the help so far....Taz, Brian and others. I will post more as I find out.

-Brian
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post #18 of 21 Old 03-28-2014, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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Ok so the rattle AND vibration while turning were both due to the Nouvalari brackets, which were in contact with something...not sure what. They manipulated them so now there is no contact. Solved! That was easy. Glad it was something simple, though it sure did not seem like it at the time.
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post #19 of 21 Old 03-28-2014, 09:17 PM
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I love a happy ending. Especially a cheap happy ending.

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post #20 of 21 Old 03-29-2014, 09:38 AM Thread Starter
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Hey Taz and friends....
I am moving on to the next problem, which is really starting to be a big issue with the car. OK, so when my car is warmed up, and the fan kicks on at 190 degrees, the car wants to stall, it chugs and shakes....the oil pressure light flickers red, and it seems as if the car is quite unhappy. When I hit the gas to counteract this chugging, bogging and sputtering, it barely helps. At that point it feels like the car is running on 3 cylinders. I have to really hit the gas pretty hard to counteract this. It only happens when the fan kicks on. It did this 6 times yesterday at traffic lights. It seems like the problem is getting progressively worse. If I don't hit the gas, it stalls.
When I got the car home, I let it run in the garage, the fan kicked on, and it seemed fine.

Oh my, please help.
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