348 muffler design 348 spyder - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 53 Old 03-11-2014, 02:43 PM Thread Starter
 
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muffler design 348 spyder

I am aware that several owners have designed their own muffler system. Would anyone be willing to share ideas or designs. Andy
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post #2 of 53 Old 03-11-2014, 07:13 PM
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What is your goal on building an exhaust? What features are you interested that aren't available with an off the shelf product?


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post #3 of 53 Old 03-12-2014, 07:53 AM Thread Starter
 
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I was just curious. The cost of a Tubi and similar seems high to me. I was just checking alternatives. Andy
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post #4 of 53 Old 03-12-2014, 09:01 AM
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Some of that cost is for the name and it's reputation. Some of that is due to the quality of the product. when designing a performance muffler there are a lot of trade offs, most builders compromise one characteristic for another. A quality system like a Tubi does a great job of balancing all of those compromises and provides the best all around result.

Figure out what you want and more importantly don't want from an upgraded exhaust system, then research and find who's systems possess those qualities, then tailor your budget accordingly. You'll be much happier in the long run, I expect.


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post #5 of 53 Old 03-12-2014, 10:09 AM
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Contact Competetizione
They are a sponsor here
They do exhaust systems and are very reputable
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post #6 of 53 Old 03-13-2014, 08:40 AM
 
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I used this:
Ultra Flo™ Welded X Mufflers - DynoMax® Performance Exhaust

It's pretty self explanatory how it's fabricated based on its shape.

Here is a clip of it:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uS04gvdqIg4
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post #7 of 53 Old 03-14-2014, 07:48 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thank You for your reply. I am curious about the installation. The pipes running to the muffler etc. Did you build them or are they off the shelf somewhere ? I would like to speak with you. Andy
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post #8 of 53 Old 03-14-2014, 08:37 AM
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Andy,
A local custom muffler shop can build you an exhaust system and can use products like borla or what was posted above. You would be surprised what they can do and how good it will sound and it will not cost you $2k+ like shiny stuff that is available. Ask around where you live for the best custom exhaust guys....I guarantee you they are there and you will be amazed at what the can do with a pipe bender. Remember no one see's the muffler it they just hear it.
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post #9 of 53 Old 03-14-2014, 11:29 AM
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One thing Ferrari flat plane crank V8s do not need is any type of X pipe or crossover pipe. One of the big advantages of a flat crank V8s is that exhaust gasses are self extracting because of the regular exhaust pulses from the 180 deg crank layout. Not true for cross-plane or 90 degree crank V8s, which do benefit from crossflow helping to extract the exhaust gasses. The smaller exhaust manufacturers and most amateurs do not understand this.

So watch out for X-pipe exhausts. They may sound great, but cost hp, torque and fuel consumption.

The big companies spend quite a bit on research and dyno runs to optimize both hp and sound. Anything cobbled together by an exhaust shop or amateurs with a welder will not perform as well and may have reliability problems.

Taz
Terry Phillips

Present: 575M 135171
Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

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post #10 of 53 Old 03-14-2014, 04:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
One thing Ferrari flat plane crank V8s do not need is any type of X pipe or crossover pipe. One of the big advantages of a flat crank V8s is that exhaust gasses are self extracting because of the regular exhaust pulses from the 180 deg crank layout. Not true for cross-plane or 90 degree crank V8s, which do benefit from crossflow helping to extract the exhaust gasses. The smaller exhaust manufacturers and most amateurs do not understand this.

So watch out for X-pipe exhausts. They may sound great, but cost hp, torque and fuel consumption.

The big companies spend quite a bit on research and dyno runs to optimize both hp and sound. Anything cobbled together by an exhaust shop or amateurs with a welder will not perform as well and may have reliability problems.
This is a comical response! So I guess Ferrari really cobbled together the stock system when they made it a crossover design, huh?
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post #11 of 53 Old 03-14-2014, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
....
The big companies spend quite a bit on research and dyno runs to optimize both hp and sound. Anything cobbled together by an exhaust shop or amateurs with a welder will not perform as well and may have reliability problems.
The big companies charge ridiculously exorbitant prices for shinny mufflers. A professional local muffler shop that is known for their customs system would not do something hastily or carelessly as i doubt they would get paid, I have worked with many over the years and their work has always been of a high level....they exist in every town.
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post #12 of 53 Old 03-14-2014, 06:20 PM
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would this be one of those "big companies" that spend quite a bit on testing or are they just amateurs with a welder?

Ferrari F430 Supersport X-Pipe Exhaust System - Fabspeed Motorsport

$4500

355 X pipe exhaust
http://www.maseratilife.com/forums/f...ari-355-a.html

California x PIPE EXHAUST
http://www.cargym.com/fabspeed-ferra...ge-p-2911.html

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post #13 of 53 Old 03-15-2014, 09:35 AM
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Boss- Exhausts that use mufflers that cross over with each set of header tubes going to a separate transverse can for space reasons is not the same thing as merging the flows from each set of headers with an X-pipe or crossover pipe.

Sounds like you do not have much experience with exhausts or understand the difference between flat plane and cross plane crank V8s. Things are often comical when someone only has superficial knowledge of the subject being discussed.

Banned- You do know that all of Fabspeed's systems are made in Taiwan, do you not? How much research they do is up for grabs. One of the big reasons for flat crank V8s is self extracting exhausts from separate pipes on each side. An X-pipe costs hp for that reason. The only way to see the differences is on a dyno, and for V12s and flat plane crank V8s, the results have always shown X pipes cost hp and torque.

Taz
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Present: 575M 135171
Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

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Last edited by tazandjan; 03-15-2014 at 10:10 AM.
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post #14 of 53 Old 03-15-2014, 12:50 PM
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After welding together a broken Fabspeed F360 muffler, I can assure anyone no real development for power is done. You are better off having Midas make your exhaust and enjoying the additional savings.


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post #15 of 53 Old 03-15-2014, 05:59 PM
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Taz,

Capristo offers x pipes on his Level 3 for Ferrari 456, 550 & 575
Capristo ► Option 3:
Sound 3 Exhaust System + X Pipes + Sec Cat Delete Pipes (Optimum Results - torque + hp
There made in Germany

CAPRISTO introduces this Ferrari FF X-Pipes to enhance the sound of your Ferrari.

This package includes:

- X-Pipes
- All mounting Hardware

The X-pipes can be installed to meet the torque in the lower RPM range and to improve the sound. If you are looking for optimum sound results, we do recommend you to install those.

Like our other high performance exhausts, the FF Package is intended to be a balanced increase between power, drive ability and sound quality, without forgetting of-course a substantial loss of weight, but those X-Pipes will add a few hp and a great sound to your Ferrari FF

Fabspeed Motorsport has over 30,000 square feet of fabrication, sales and warehouse space at our main facility and an additional 200,000+ square feet of dedicated manufacturing space across the USA.

What's the issue with Taiwan? Must they be made in Italy or Germany for your approval?

Did you know?

Taiwan is #6 in the 2013 Global Manufacturing Competitiveness Index (Italy is #32)

Taiwan’s top 10 ranking in the 2013 GMCI is perhaps no surprise given
the country’s competitive advantages in the areas of corporate tax rates,
trade, infrastructure and workforce development. Furthermore, executives
responding to the 2013 GMCI survey cite Taiwan’s high economic freedom
and established manufacturing capabilities as key contributors to the
country’s competitiveness, which have evolved to become recognized as a
global destination for research, development and production.

Have two friends that have installed Fab Speed headers on 360's and they are stunning in workmanship.

Their research (but maybe they are just liars):

Fits all Ferrari F430 vehicles (Coupe/Spider/Scuderia)
Adds 20whp & 13 ft/lbs of torque at 8000 RPM
Saves 11 lbs. compared to the factory muffler
2.5” tubing for maximum exhaust flow with reduced backpressure compared to OEM muffler
High quality 14-16ga T304L stainless steel CNC mandrel-bent tubing for optimum power and sound
Compatible with stock catalytic converters or Fabspeed’s 200-cell Sport Cats or Catbypass Pipes
Offers aggressive exhaust tone and significant performance increases
Includes Fabspeed’s Deluxe Quad-Style Tips (Coupe/Spider vehicles only) or you may choose to re-use OEM tips
NOTE: Scuderia models do not require outlet tips.
Simple bolt-on installation; no cutting or welding required

Ferrari 599/F430
Jeremy,
A quick email to say thanks, and provide you with an update on the 599. First, the F430 is running great since I installed the Fabspeed headers with the ECU upgrade (I think it’s faster than my 16M) everyone loves the sound.
Secondly, the 599 Secondary Catbypass Pipes ARE GREAT. No install issues, no warning lights, in fact I actually waited on the car at the local shop because it was so easy to install. Superb product, removal of the cats makes a nice little sound increase and of course a nice power increase too. Sounds awesome.
Again, thanks for providing a great product.
Kirk Brown
Ferrari Club Alabama Chapter President

Ferrari 458
No questions, I passed your information along to my client and waiting still for a response. Also, Thanks for all your help with the 458, it turned out great and the client was very happy and
Your team did an outstanding job getting us the part we needed “on time” to complete the
Installation and you won me over ! Hope to do some good business with you in 2011 ! Joe Abernethy
Service/Parts Manager
Cauley Ferrari

Ferrari F430
Hi Jay,
I just wanted to let you know how well your products are doing with us and the great feedback. Recently we installed complete header, cats and muffler systems on 2 F430’s.
From my perspective, beautifully engineered pieces of art that install well, look and sound great and add REAL value to the vehicle. From the clients view, superbly crafted equipment that is absolutely at “home” on their Ferrari ! Keep up the good work and please drop by when in town. By the way, we would love to display your products in our store, so let’s chat about that very soon !
Best Regards,
Bruce
Service Manager
Ferrari of Tampa Bay

Can't wait for your response

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post #16 of 53 Old 03-15-2014, 06:22 PM
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Andy,

Excuse the interruption and back to your needs....

Stand by my advice, find a good local shop and you will be amazed at what you get and for a reasonable price. No matter what you do someone will be bothered but who cares :-)

Should see how some reacted to my cat removal.

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post #17 of 53 Old 03-15-2014, 10:33 PM
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Banned- Direct comparison tests between X-Pipes and straight pipes for the 65 degree V12s shows an advantage in torque and hp in all rpm ranges for the straight pipes. That is why Ferrari went to straight pipes on late model 575Ms. Comparing an X-pipe and aftermarket mufflers to an OEM system is not apples to apples. If Capristo used straight pipes and the same muffler, the FF would show more hp and torque than it would with the X-pipe. Sound quality is debatable between X-pipes and straight pipes.


I think I trust Josh on FabSpeed quality more than your buddies and have read some real horror stories on fitment and quality. Sounds like you are drinking the Kool-Aid if you are quoting marketing documents.

Taz
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Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

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post #18 of 53 Old 03-16-2014, 06:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
So watch out for X-pipe exhausts. They may sound great, but cost hp, torque and fuel consumption.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Boss- Exhausts that use mufflers that cross over with each set of header tubes going to a separate transverse can for space reasons is not the same thing as merging the flows from each set of headers with an X-pipe or crossover pipe.

Sounds like you do not have much experience with exhausts or understand the difference between flat plane and cross plane crank V8s. Things are often comical when someone only has superficial knowledge of the subject being discussed.
I have little patience for internet pontificators so this will be my last post on this matter. As far experience goes YOU are 100% incorrect in every aspect of your argument. I will only touch on a few points due to your personal attack on me because I don't have all day to talk smart into the stupid. You say in your first post "but cost hp, torque and fuel consumption." All of these facts are not only false but actually the complete opposite. Do you know how I know? Because I have done it.

"Things are often comical when someone only has superficial knowledge of the subject being discussed." Your looking in the mirror, right?

As of yet the OP has seen no useful information from you as to the actual subject of this thread, just what not to do.
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post #19 of 53 Old 03-16-2014, 09:51 AM
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Boss- Show us some data. Otherwise, you are just making noise. You started the attacks and obviously never understood what I was discussing. If you think X-pipes increase hp and torque on flat plane crank V8s, the stupid part is obvious.

Taz
Terry Phillips

Present: 575M 135171
Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

Every day I look around, and if nobody is shooting at me, it is a pretty good day.
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post #20 of 53 Old 03-16-2014, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
Banned- Direct comparison tests between X-Pipes and straight pipes for the 65 degree V12s shows an advantage in torque and hp in all rpm ranges for the straight pipes. That is why Ferrari went to straight pipes on late model 575Ms. Comparing an X-pipe and aftermarket mufflers to an OEM system is not apples to apples. If Capristo used straight pipes and the same muffler, the FF would show more hp and torque than it would with the X-pipe. Sound quality is debatable between X-pipes and straight pipes.


I think I trust Josh on FabSpeed quality more than your buddies and have read some real horror stories on fitment and quality. Sounds like you are drinking the Kool-Aid if you are quoting marketing documents.
What I expected lots of yada yada yada and nothing more, waste of time. Please have the last word but I am done responding to nothing but hot exhaust

Actually I prefer lemonade
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