308 New steering racks? - Ferrari Life
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 27 Old 10-23-2013, 03:41 PM Thread Starter
Owner
Sponsor
 
David @ FluentInFerrari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sarasota FL
Ferrari Life Posts: 962
New steering racks?

Anyone familiar with the new 308 replacement racks that are being offered by the usually sources. Although claims are made that they are made in Italy, per Russ at FerrParts, there are no markings on the rack as to country of origin. These racks look very similar to the racks sold by a well-known EU supplier. And then there's another rack looking nearly identical being sold on ebay for half the price, but they claim that the rack is made by one their Japanese, Korean or Chinese partners.

Even the most reputable of US suppliers seem to have these racks from time to time...Anyone have first hand experience with one of them or have a great rebuilder who do more than just slap in a new end bushing. I'm seeing more and more 3x8 cars with totally clapped out inner tie rod ends.

Thanks

Sarasota Italian Garage, LLC
Sarasota, FL
www.fluentinferrari.com
[email protected]

**An independent facility with no affiliation with Ferrari SpA**
David @ FluentInFerrari is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 27 Old 10-23-2013, 05:04 PM
Master Mechanic
 
ECSofVirginia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,219
I've had good luck with rebuilds via Meridian in San Diego. If I can't sell a new OEM unit, I usually have them rebuild it.


ECSofVirginia is offline  
post #3 of 27 Old 10-23-2013, 05:27 PM Thread Starter
Owner
Sponsor
 
David @ FluentInFerrari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sarasota FL
Ferrari Life Posts: 962
I'm not familiar with those folks....Thanks for the lead.
Ever deal with Atlantic Enterprises?

I too would much prefer new. But I'm just not taking a chance with a POS from some unknown land. The liability is just way too high, even for some of my more value conscious clients.

Sarasota Italian Garage, LLC
Sarasota, FL
www.fluentinferrari.com
[email protected]

**An independent facility with no affiliation with Ferrari SpA**
David @ FluentInFerrari is offline  
 
post #4 of 27 Old 10-23-2013, 06:01 PM
Master Mechanic
 
ECSofVirginia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,219
Understandable. I have not used Atlantic. Being a West Coast guy, I have hung on to those resources which proved reasonably reliable. I just eat the lost shipping time in hopes of not having to do the job a second time.


ECSofVirginia is offline  
post #5 of 27 Old 10-24-2013, 09:45 AM
Owner
 
Brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Austin Texas
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,833
I agree with everything David.

My client base is such that I almost never need new racks but when I did rebuilds were a horror show and I vowed to never use another and if required to just rebuild them in house.

One suggestion, get in touch with Brian Keegan. If you don't know how I do. Ask who he got rebuilds from and don't go to those guys.

Brian is a very good pats man but the rack rebuilder he was using was a disaster.

If really needed I would just rebuild it in house. It can't be that hard.

Last edited by Brian; 10-24-2013 at 04:40 PM.
Brian is offline  
post #6 of 27 Old 11-10-2013, 07:38 PM
Owner
 
MBFerrari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: VA
Ferrari Life Posts: 355
Garage
The two guys who answered you in this thread (Josh and Brian) have forgotten more about Ferrari's than I will ever know, but if you need more info, Tom Jones at Sport Auto replaced mine during my last major this year, but not sure off the top of my head which one he installed. I know it was new though. If you give him a call I am sure he will discuss with you.

Regards,
Matt B
MBFerrari is offline  
post #7 of 27 Old 11-11-2013, 09:09 AM
Owner
Elite Member
 
tazandjan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Ferrari Life Posts: 11,859
David, Josh, Brian- John Cribb just had his 550 rack rebuilt by ADCO in Houston and was very happy with the results. You can see his description in his 550 major major thread towards the end. http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/mo...tml#post287746

Welcome - Adco - Houston Power Steering Service and Supply

Taz
Terry Phillips

Present: 575M 135171
Past: Dino 246 GT 02984, 365 GTB/4 14009, 308 GTS 25125

Every day I look around, and if nobody is shooting at me, it is a pretty good day.
tazandjan is offline  
post #8 of 27 Old 11-12-2013, 08:35 PM
Owner
 
robertgarven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ventura, California
Ferrari Life Posts: 14
Friends,

I may be of some help here. I have a well known parts pal who told me the racks at Ferrparts are the same as the ones at Superformance even though the Superformance ones are half the price. I cannot say for sure but almost certain he said they were made in Europe.

I just went through a long complicated rack rebuild. I paid quite a bit of money have mine rebuilt against my own best judgement as I wanted the original plastic bushing which I could not source. I was not happy with the rebuilt rack (it was way too tight) and ended up re-building it myself. Some of you guys are expert mechanics here so this should be a piece of cake.

All you need to do this are a few simple tools and some basic instructions.

These are the same racks on the original Austin Mini, but longer and the EXACT same as on a Pantera. They were made by Cam Gear in the UK and are NLA. After some much needed help from some friends who have done many of these it is a very simple job. I also replaced the new original bushing with a bronze one from:

Suspension & Chassis 1045 Rack Bushing

The picture here is not what it looked like and I bought several of these from different sources, so I could experiment a bit, but this place had the one that fit the best! The consensus was the plastic one wears out in about 10K miles and the bronze one wears out at about 40-50K. I know on you tube some guy takes out a regular 308 rack in 5 minutes but on the GT4 it is more like 5 days. There are two round headed allen bolts that no tool I could find would remove them as they are inside the frame and ended up carefully removing each one slowly.

The tools are:

JH Williams O-471-3/4 to 2-Inch Adjustable Pin Spanner Wrench,

JH Williams O-471-3/4 to 2-Inch Adjustable Pin Spanner Wrench - Amazon.com

a Armstrong 34-305 1-1/4-3-Inch Adjustable Hook Spanner Wrench,

Armstrong 34-305 1-1/4-3-Inch Adjustable Hook Spanner Wrench - Amazon.com

I used CRC SL3331 Extreme Pressure Engine Assembly Lube, 10 Wt Oz,

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

but if I was to do it over again I would use the Redline CV joint grease. They originally came with fluid grease but the Cam Gear guys who my friend contacted suggested a 0 weight grease as a better alternative. I think the Redline would be even better as all the applications in the rack are under pressure and a grease that would hang on to would work the best. It also has specs that are better, I have used it allot, but that topic could be a whole other thread!

Amazon.com: Red Line 80402 Synthetic Grease: Automotive

Here are a few websites that I used one from an old friend who really helped me out, and the other from a Pantera expert who has done many rebuilds:

Steering - Ferrari - a set on Flickr

Pantera Steering Rack

I opted for the newer style GT4 rack mounts and I sure wish I knew then what I know now. I would have rebuilt it myself and kept the old style mounts, as both were a pain to get in or out.

A few tips; The bushing once driven in gets a bit tighter so I had to remove it and very carefully hone the bushing with a very small brake hone to get it just right. I bought a few bushings because i knew this would happen. I ended up selling the unused ones on ebay. There is a jam nut style locking collar that once the tie rod is lubed and adjusted is peened down on both sides, this is critical and not forgiving and there are no extra part available so you just have one shot at this. It took quite a few ground down punches to get the locking collar un-peened. I also scotch brited the rack shaft. Anyway all the instruction are above and its not hard to do.
I even bought another one on ebay I am playing with and will rebuild it and save it with all my other extra parts.

If anyone needs any help I would be more than happy to add more tips especially on what not to do…..

Rob

If you have a GT4 great time to do your lower valance, especially if you are into S&M as it is riveted on and most rivets need to be hand drilled out from areas you cannot see! HAAA
Attached Images
         

Robert W. Garven Jr.

"The Ferrari is a dream - people dream of owning this special vehicle and for most
people it will remain a dream apart from for those lucky few". Enzo Ferrari
robertgarven is offline  
post #9 of 27 Old 11-13-2013, 06:37 AM
Owner
 
bretm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: New Jersey
Ferrari Life Posts: 2,152
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertgarven View Post
...If you have a GT4 great time to do your lower valance, especially if you are into S&M as it is riveted on and most rivets need to be hand drilled out from areas you cannot see! HAAA
Lol. Thanks for the morning chuckle.

And needless to say, that is some beautiful work you've done.
bretm is offline  
post #10 of 27 Old 11-13-2013, 11:15 AM
Owner
 
Pizzaman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NH
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,577
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertgarven View Post
Friends,

I may be of some help here. I have a well known parts pal who told me the racks at Ferrparts are the same as the ones at Superformance even though the Superformance ones are half the price. I cannot say for sure but almost certain he said they were made in Europe.

I just went through a long complicated rack rebuild. I paid quite a bit of money have mine rebuilt against my own best judgement as I wanted the original plastic bushing which I could not source. I was not happy with the rebuilt rack (it was way too tight) and ended up re-building it myself. Some of you guys are expert mechanics here so this should be a piece of cake.

All you need to do this are a few simple tools and some basic instructions.

These are the same racks on the original Austin Mini, but longer and the EXACT same as on a Pantera. They were made by Cam Gear in the UK and are NLA. After some much needed help from some friends who have done many of these it is a very simple job. I also replaced the new original bushing with a bronze one from:

Suspension & Chassis 1045 Rack Bushing

The picture here is not what it looked like and I bought several of these from different sources, so I could experiment a bit, but this place had the one that fit the best! The consensus was the plastic one wears out in about 10K miles and the bronze one wears out at about 40-50K. I know on you tube some guy takes out a regular 308 rack in 5 minutes but on the GT4 it is more like 5 days. There are two round headed allen bolts that no tool I could find would remove them as they are inside the frame and ended up carefully removing each one slowly.

The tools are:

JH Williams O-471-3/4 to 2-Inch Adjustable Pin Spanner Wrench,

JH Williams O-471-3/4 to 2-Inch Adjustable Pin Spanner Wrench - Amazon.com

a Armstrong 34-305 1-1/4-3-Inch Adjustable Hook Spanner Wrench,

Armstrong 34-305 1-1/4-3-Inch Adjustable Hook Spanner Wrench - Amazon.com

I used CRC SL3331 Extreme Pressure Engine Assembly Lube, 10 Wt Oz,

Amazon.com: CRC SL3331 Extreme Pressure Engine Assembly Lube, 10 Wt Oz: Automotive

but if I was to do it over again I would use the Redline CV joint grease. They originally came with fluid grease but the Cam Gear guys who my friend contacted suggested a 0 weight grease as a better alternative. I think the Redline would be even better as all the applications in the rack are under pressure and a grease that would hang on to would work the best. It also has specs that are better, I have used it allot, but that topic could be a whole other thread!

Amazon.com: Red Line 80402 Synthetic Grease: Automotive

Here are a few websites that I used one from an old friend who really helped me out, and the other from a Pantera expert who has done many rebuilds:

Steering - Ferrari - a set on Flickr

Pantera Steering Rack

I opted for the newer style GT4 rack mounts and I sure wish I knew then what I know now. I would have rebuilt it myself and kept the old style mounts, as both were a pain to get in or out.

A few tips; The bushing once driven in gets a bit tighter so I had to remove it and very carefully hone the bushing with a very small brake hone to get it just right. I bought a few bushings because i knew this would happen. I ended up selling the unused ones on ebay. There is a jam nut style locking collar that once the tie rod is lubed and adjusted is peened down on both sides, this is critical and not forgiving and there are no extra part available so you just have one shot at this. It took quite a few ground down punches to get the locking collar un-peened. I also scotch brited the rack shaft. Anyway all the instruction are above and its not hard to do.
I even bought another one on ebay I am playing with and will rebuild it and save it with all my other extra parts.

If anyone needs any help I would be more than happy to add more tips especially on what not to do…..

Rob

If you have a GT4 great time to do your lower valance, especially if you are into S&M as it is riveted on and most rivets need to be hand drilled out from areas you cannot see! HAAA

Rob, if I send you my steering rack, and I pay for the parts, will you take a few pizzas for the cost of the labor??

Please note, I am NOT a member of Beavis's Exclusive KissAss Club.
Pizzaman is offline  
post #11 of 27 Old 11-13-2013, 08:25 PM
Owner
 
robertgarven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ventura, California
Ferrari Life Posts: 14
Chris,

It is so easy, I will help out any way I can with tips. I am not sure I want to rebuild other peoples parts as I only feel comfortable messing up my stuff. Thats why I take my hat off to anyone that works on others cars. That said this is so important not only to your car and life. I think any owner that does any simple work should do this if just for the experience to see how it works. The only difficult part is figuring out how much tension to put on the tie rods, which is done by screwing on a collar which the rod goes through. What helped me was using the rack I bought on ebay as a baseline for this tension setting. My sources said make sure they are loose enough to move around easily but tight enough to stay put when moved horizontally. I spent about 2 hours making mine "feel" the same on each side. Also tightening the "jam nut" collar is important as it holds everything together. I tightened them up as tight as my strength allowed then used a medium ball peen hammer to tap the pin wrench until it moved about 1/8", then I peened it down. Also the small thin shims that are on the opening where the o-ring and spring are determine the tightness of the saddle which presses on the back side of the rack. Mine was too tight and could barely move the steering wheel so I made a few shims. It was first too tight then too loose. Then finally I got it just right. The bronze bushing makes the rack sit firmer in the housing and fits so well it makes the tension in this area critical. My steering is a bit heavy but pretty much how it felt when I was driving all the years with the plastic bushing disintegrated. I also have the smaller Momo F1 racing wheel on when not showing the car. The new bushing really makes the steering more precise. I can sit in the car and wiggle the steering wheel about 1/4" each way which freaked me out until I opened the door and watched the front wheel move the exact same amount when turning the wheel. Plus on the GT4 removing the rack and putting it back is 95% of the work. On the QV not sure the regular GTB/S there is a You Tube Video where a guy does it in 5 minutes or less which really pissed me off! HAAA

Ferrari 308 Steering Rack Removal - YouTube

Rob
Attached Images
   

Robert W. Garven Jr.

"The Ferrari is a dream - people dream of owning this special vehicle and for most
people it will remain a dream apart from for those lucky few". Enzo Ferrari
robertgarven is offline  
post #12 of 27 Old 11-14-2013, 04:41 PM
Owner
 
Pizzaman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NH
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,577
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertgarven View Post
Chris,

It is so easy, I will help out any way I can with tips. I am not sure I want to rebuild other peoples parts as I only feel comfortable messing up my stuff. Thats why I take my hat off to anyone that works on others cars. That said this is so important not only to your car and life. I think any owner that does any simple work should do this if just for the experience to see how it works. The only difficult part is figuring out how much tension to put on the tie rods, which is done by screwing on a collar which the rod goes through. What helped me was using the rack I bought on ebay as a baseline for this tension setting. My sources said make sure they are loose enough to move around easily but tight enough to stay put when moved horizontally. I spent about 2 hours making mine "feel" the same on each side. Also tightening the "jam nut" collar is important as it holds everything together. I tightened them up as tight as my strength allowed then used a medium ball peen hammer to tap the pin wrench until it moved about 1/8", then I peened it down. Also the small thin shims that are on the opening where the o-ring and spring are determine the tightness of the saddle which presses on the back side of the rack. Mine was too tight and could barely move the steering wheel so I made a few shims. It was first too tight then too loose. Then finally I got it just right. The bronze bushing makes the rack sit firmer in the housing and fits so well it makes the tension in this area critical. My steering is a bit heavy but pretty much how it felt when I was driving all the years with the plastic bushing disintegrated. I also have the smaller Momo F1 racing wheel on when not showing the car. The new bushing really makes the steering more precise. I can sit in the car and wiggle the steering wheel about 1/4" each way which freaked me out until I opened the door and watched the front wheel move the exact same amount when turning the wheel. Plus on the GT4 removing the rack and putting it back is 95% of the work. On the QV not sure the regular GTB/S there is a You Tube Video where a guy does it in 5 minutes or less which really pissed me off! HAAA

Ferrari 308 Steering Rack Removal - YouTube

Rob

Rob, thanks for the vote in confidence.

I'll keep all this info handy when it's time to do the deed.

Please note, I am NOT a member of Beavis's Exclusive KissAss Club.
Pizzaman is offline  
post #13 of 27 Old 11-18-2013, 02:02 PM
Owner
 
Vizsla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sarasota
Ferrari Life Posts: 184
Dave, any updates?
Vizsla is offline  
post #14 of 27 Old 11-18-2013, 04:50 PM
Owner
 
Pizzaman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NH
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,577
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizsla View Post
Dave, any updates?
Have you gone south yet?

Please note, I am NOT a member of Beavis's Exclusive KissAss Club.
Pizzaman is offline  
post #15 of 27 Old 11-18-2013, 04:55 PM
Owner
 
Vizsla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sarasota
Ferrari Life Posts: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizzaman View Post
Have you gone south yet?
Geographically?


Been here a week and loving it.
Even found quality Chinese food.

You coming down anytime soon?
Vizsla is offline  
post #16 of 27 Old 11-18-2013, 05:20 PM
Owner
 
Pizzaman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NH
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,577
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizsla View Post
Geographically?


Been here a week and loving it.
Even found quality Chinese food.

You coming down anytime soon?

So that's why it's been so quiet lately.

You found a good Chinese place too?? Dang, I still haven't found one yet on Marco.

Please note, I am NOT a member of Beavis's Exclusive KissAss Club.
Pizzaman is offline  
post #17 of 27 Old 11-18-2013, 05:35 PM
Owner
 
Vizsla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sarasota
Ferrari Life Posts: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizzaman View Post
So that's why it's been so quiet lately.

You found a good Chinese place too?? Dang, I still haven't found one yet on Marco.
China Town good.


Just got some photos. Befores are scary. Afters beautiful.
The bushings were worse than I thought. With the new wheels and tires the handling should be sweet.

Drop by. I'll give you a ride and an egg roll
Vizsla is offline  
post #18 of 27 Old 11-18-2013, 07:27 PM
Owner
 
Pizzaman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NH
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,577
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizsla View Post
China Town good.


Just got some photos. Befores are scary. Afters beautiful.
The bushings were worse than I thought. With the new wheels and tires the handling should be sweet.

Drop by. I'll give you a ride and an egg roll
35+ year old bushings, I bet they where nasty looking.

Egg roll? Oh com'on man, I want something good. Crab ragons will satisfy my taste buds.

Please note, I am NOT a member of Beavis's Exclusive KissAss Club.
Pizzaman is offline  
post #19 of 27 Old 11-18-2013, 07:33 PM
Owner
 
Vizsla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sarasota
Ferrari Life Posts: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizzaman View Post
35+ year old bushings, I bet they where nasty looking.

Egg roll? Oh com'on man, I want something good. Crab ragons will satisfy my taste buds.
Didn't want to scare you with the jelly fish.

Being from NH I figured egg roll would qualfy as exotic.


What was left of them was in a sorry state. Thankful that what everything attaches to looks strong.
I may skip the truck and fetch her myself.
Vizsla is offline  
post #20 of 27 Old 11-18-2013, 07:43 PM
Owner
 
Pizzaman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NH
Ferrari Life Posts: 1,577
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizsla View Post
Didn't want to scare you with the jelly fish.

Being from NH I figured egg roll would qualfy as exotic.


What was left of them was in a sorry state. Thankful that what everything attaches to looks strong.
I may skip the truck and fetch her myself.

I say yes on the drive south.

Mass pike thru Hartford 84 and then to 81 all the way to 77 then to 26 and then 95.
You know the rest of the way.

Please note, I am NOT a member of Beavis's Exclusive KissAss Club.
Pizzaman is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome
Copyright 2012 ONE Media, Inc.
FerrariLife is independently run with no affiliation with Ferrari SpA
Ferrari for Sale | Maserati for Sale