348 348 spider R12 or R134 - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 8 Old 06-11-2013, 04:33 AM Thread Starter
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348 spider R12 or R134

What was factory AC charge in 94 348 spider with production date of mid 93?

R12 or 134????
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post #2 of 8 Old 06-11-2013, 09:46 AM
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I suspect 134.

Current: 85' GTS QV
It's a simple process...... it's just complicated by human beings....
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post #3 of 8 Old 07-08-2013, 04:15 PM Thread Starter
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Actually R12 is correct
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post #4 of 8 Old 07-08-2013, 06:18 PM
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its my understanding that R12 was the original charge but all (in the US) have been recharged with 134 during the majors. (I could be wrong, I don't keep up on the refrigerant stuff)

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post #5 of 8 Old 07-09-2013, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Bastage View Post
its my understanding that R12 was the original charge but all (in the US) have been recharged with 134 during the majors. (I could be wrong, I don't keep up on the refrigerant stuff)


Most here still run R12. It works better.


Conversions where not required by law are a scam. Converted systems just cannot work as well and over the life of the car will save you no money. They are performed for profit motive.


R134 was not used until the early 355's.

Last edited by Brian; 07-09-2013 at 10:47 AM.
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post #6 of 8 Old 07-09-2013, 12:25 PM
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I just finished rebuilding my a/c system on my '76 with all stock components, new hoses, seals, exp coil, dryer etc. Anyway, I really didn't feel like blowing any more on R12 and I knew R134 would be just a bad idea in an old system designed to operate at lower pressures, so I went with ES12 which is a hydrocarbon product. The results are 45 degree vent temps on a 90 degree high humidity Atlanta day. Very impressed. 3 cans on ebay for $20, filled the system with two 6oz cans. The product advises that 6oz ES12 is equiv to 18oz R12, works very well.

Mind you ES12 is a hydrocarbon product so some may advise flammability to be an issue, but in the case of ES12, it's flammability only arises at temps approaching 1500F. So for me, it's a risk worth taking considering I have all new components and I've never heard of any issues using this product.
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post #7 of 8 Old 07-09-2013, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ferraripilot View Post
I just finished rebuilding my a/c system on my '76 with all stock components, new hoses, seals, exp coil, dryer etc. Anyway, I really didn't feel like blowing any more on R12 and I knew R134 would be just a bad idea in an old system designed to operate at lower pressures, so I went with ES12 which is a hydrocarbon product. The results are 45 degree vent temps on a 90 degree high humidity Atlanta day. Very impressed. 3 cans on ebay for $20, filled the system with two 6oz cans. The product advises that 6oz ES12 is equiv to 18oz R12, works very well.

Mind you ES12 is a hydrocarbon product so some may advise flammability to be an issue, but in the case of ES12, it's flammability only arises at temps approaching 1500F. So for me, it's a risk worth taking considering I have all new components and I've never heard of any issues using this product.

We have heard a number of nightmare stories.

Guess what happens when a compressor seal or hose blows right next to that exhaust manifold running hotter than 1500 degrees?

Can you say explosion?


There is a really good reason no one who cares about liability fills systems with what is much like propane.


It is really surprising to many of us that it is still on the market. But then Ferrari knew about fuel line fires on the 355's since 1996 and only fixed them when they got sued into next year.
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post #8 of 8 Old 07-09-2013, 02:53 PM
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Personally, I have to respectfully disagree. And the why.

For quite a few of us those hoses aren't anywhere near the manifolds and the manifolds don't run hot enough to ignite squat unless something is misfiring or seriously awry. I have never measured hotter than 900F manifold temps when running excessively hard even when racing late model dirt track engines, and exhaust gas itself burns at around 300-1200F depending on hard use. Turbo manifolds are a different story, I don't think I would take the chance with a hard run turbo engine.


R134a has a rated ignition temp of about 1400F, but for whatever reason it's not labeled as flammable. I suspect it's not rated flammable as at atmospheric pressure it is indeed not flammable. The problem is when R134a is being used at the pressure it's designed to be used, it is indeed flammable. The only difference with ES12 is it is both flammable at atmospheric pressures and compressed pressures, but for both instances it's flammability is temp is still higher than R134a so I still don't see the big deal. And considering it runs at much lower pressures than R134 there is a much lower probability of anything being blown anyway. So unless someone is planning on taking a propane torch or blow torch to a line, I don't think there's going to be any issue.

The EPA was overly paranoid in not approving the stuff because they were being lobbied against approving it by GM, Ford, who obviously didn't want any liable cases on their hands. On one hand I can understand it, but my profession as a catastrophic auto accident litigation guy I see the most horrible auto wrecks imaginable. In those wrecks with semi trucks plowing through a small SUVs and the like, R134 explodes at times albeit rarely, and the fire is out before anyone knew it ever started, the stuff literally vanishes extremely quick when lit. Still, that's all it takes at times.

Both have their cruxes, and it's arguable which is worse. Still, it takes a freak occurance or outright stupidity for either to be overly dangerous. Personally, I'm more fearful of having 20 gallons of gasoline strapped while driving to my back than this haha.

Just my 2c


It should be noted that the various EPA type of organizations in several other countries have approved the stuff, Australia, Korea, Japan being the largest.

Last edited by ferraripilot; 07-09-2013 at 02:59 PM.
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