F355 Need advice. - Ferrari Life
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post #1 of 38 Old 05-07-2013, 03:02 PM Thread Starter
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Need advice.

So need some advice from other owners.

Got my F355 about 3 months ago, and it's been great until recently. Had a check engine light and then slow down light come up

Before I got car, dealer showed me a 4-5 page itemized invoice for the major service in March 2012 at an authorized Ferrari dealer in San Antonio, which showed replacements of both catalytic converters and other items, with a total of around $16k

Today, James from Norwood Performance, in Dallas, told me that the issue they found was "there appeared to be 'home-made catalytic converters' on it, with screw in plugs on the downstream side, and one of the plugs fell out causing a huge exhaust leak. ". He replaced that plug, and seems to be running fine.

My question is, did the dealer lie to me? Home-made catalytic converters? I have the 5 page PDF invoice as proof they were replaced, and the service in March 2012 was done while dealer still had the car, not by a previous owner.

Is there anything I should or be doing? I haven't contacted the dealer yet, but will soon, but wanted to see what you all suggest.

Makes me so angry...I'll never shop there again. Is going to the better business bureau going too far? I feel like I was lied to, and sold a car that is not what I was promised.

BTW, Norwood performance and James has been excellent...will definitely go back there again

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Last edited by MC355; 05-07-2013 at 09:03 PM.
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post #2 of 38 Old 05-07-2013, 03:49 PM
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I assume your 355 is a 95?

There are a number of companies rebuilding catalytic converters. Yours are probably rebuilt OBD 2 cats with the downstream O2 sensor port plugged.

I'd have to see your invoice for the specific information and wording to comment on your feeling that your were intentionally misinformed.

In California we have a very strong set of consumer protection laws in place that among other things dictate how we word repair records. I can say from experience having had need at one time to research Texas consumer protection laws with respect to auto repair that you have none. It all becomes a civil matter with lawyers and finger pointing.

Another real possibility. It the last couple of years I have had a number of totally falsified repair orders of mine show up to claim repair and service work I never performed to bolster asking prices of cars for sale. Some at dealers. I have also had clients offer to pay for me to construct false repair records for the same reason.

Another additional point. He may be describing generic cats with fabricated ends to fit your car. Again, a matter of the wording on the invoice. It is entirely possible the invoice wording was chosen to be decieving but without reading it, it is impossible to comment.

Last edited by Brian; 05-07-2013 at 03:56 PM.
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post #3 of 38 Old 05-07-2013, 04:15 PM Thread Starter
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Brian,

Thanks for the input. If you PM me your email, I can send you the invoice.

I guess I was "heated" when I posted the thread, but I consider myself pretty honest and feel that the dealer kept a lot of info from me, which I know I shouldn't be surprised with, but I am

So you're saying it's "legal" to falsify repair orders and invoices? You said you were approached by many people to do that...

Anyways, hopefully it's just a rebuilt OBDII cats like you said.

I'll find out more when I call the mechanic in afew days. He emailed me about the "homemade cats" today

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post #4 of 38 Old 05-07-2013, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MC355 View Post
So you're saying it's "legal" to falsify repair orders and invoices? You said you were approached by many people to do that...
He said he had people ask him to do it. He didn't say he'd actually done it.
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post #5 of 38 Old 05-07-2013, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MC355 View Post

So you're saying it's "legal" to falsify repair orders and invoices? You said you were approached by many people to do that...


Legal?

No, it's not legal.




In buying anything you need to protect your interests. Few people selling anything are going to willingly tell you the downside and point out the warts. Outright lying or knowingly providing false information is not OK but from having been around the car business for as long as I have I can say from experience that it is a rare car salesman who goes to any length at all to either verify a cars condition or verify the claims or documents that hold the car in a good light. They don't consider it lying if they don't know.


my email is [email protected].
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post #6 of 38 Old 05-07-2013, 05:52 PM Thread Starter
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Brian,

Just emailed you the Invoice as a PDF

Wow, no wonder people hate buying cars....especially used ones

Guess only good news is, if it is just a bad plug, shouldn't cost too much to fix...probably will be cheaper than what it cost me to transport it to Dallas...

Maserati GranTurismo MC - Giallo yellow
Porsche 911 GT3 RS - black with orange accents - wife's car
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Last edited by MC355; 05-07-2013 at 06:00 PM.
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post #7 of 38 Old 05-07-2013, 08:10 PM
 
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Mikes

Mike,

Have the shop get you pictures of all items in question. if they want extra $ for the time and effort, give it to them. you need documentation if you want to go back to the dealer to ask for compensation of any sort. at least you'll know what to look for next time. when my car was on the lift, i took about 20 or so pictures and video's just asking about the anatomy of the F430 from below. Nice to know you have someone you trust in the same state. let us know when she gets home!
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post #8 of 38 Old 05-07-2013, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
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Cheng,

Thats pretty good advice there. I'll ask him more on the phone what he meant by home made cats.

I may actually pick her up in Dallas and drive her home. If so, I can spend a little time and talk with the shop and maybe be able to take a few pics myself

Maserati GranTurismo MC - Giallo yellow
Porsche 911 GT3 RS - black with orange accents - wife's car
F355 Berlinetta - Giallo Modena, 6-speed manual, carbon sport seats -recently traded in
Porsche Cayenne Turbo S
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post #9 of 38 Old 05-07-2013, 10:57 PM
 
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Just out of curiosity, how much will it cost?
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post #10 of 38 Old 05-08-2013, 05:59 AM Thread Starter
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Just out of curiosity, how much will it cost?
Not sure yet. Norwood performance is keeping car for a few more days to drive it more, to make sure they've fixed the problem and the CEL and slow down lights won't come back on.

I can PM you the cost when I find out, if you'd like

Maserati GranTurismo MC - Giallo yellow
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post #11 of 38 Old 05-08-2013, 09:04 AM
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I just read the invoice. It is all there in black and white and there was no deception. In the parts list it shows "2 Misc AM Catalyst". In the description of work it says "Replaced the catalysts with aftermarket units".

No one was decieved, no one lied, and no one obfuscated the truth in any way.

What you have done was to call a dealer dishonest and you did it by name. You really owe them a public apology.


They went out of their way to tell you the truth, a truth you chose to ignore and this is their pay off?


People like you make this business difficult.
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post #12 of 38 Old 05-08-2013, 10:57 AM
 
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Ouch! ... U.S version of a public caining.
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post #13 of 38 Old 05-08-2013, 11:37 AM
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Lesson learned here is "Seek first to understand".
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post #14 of 38 Old 05-08-2013, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
I just read the invoice. It is all there in black and white and there was no deception. In the parts list it shows "2 Misc AM Catalyst". In the description of work it says "Replaced the catalysts with aftermarket units".

No one was decieved, no one lied, and no one obfuscated the truth in any way.

What you have done was to call a dealer dishonest and you did it by name. You really owe them a public apology.


They went out of their way to tell you the truth, a truth you chose to ignore and this is their pay off?


People like you make this business difficult.
well I apologize if I missed that wording, but i never assumed "aftermarket units" to be synonymous with "home-made." maybe I misunderstood home-made?

I used alot of aftermarket parts in my other cars in past, K&N, Greddy, Apexi etc and those are not Home made...

But to have issues after 2.5 months of ownership, still does not sit right with me, even if a dealer is being "honest"....

And please get your facts straight, I NEVER called out the dealer by name. Only you have the invoice, and no one else knows what dealer i'm talking about... I mentioned Norwood Performance because they are diagnosing my car and doing a damn good job at that..

and honest dealer, please, that's funny to me. they wouldn't drop the price by $3-4k (i knew i overpaid on price) because kept going on and on about how immaculate my F355 is and how I will not need any servicing or have any issues for at least 1 year, since it just had all its services done. Still sounding honest to you??? don't make such claims, and to have me have issues 2 months later...

and honestly, it was an honest mistake...maybe i jumped to conclusions after reading the email. but to say people like me make this business difficult? I take offense to that. you know absolutely NOTHING about me. thanks for your help.

Maserati GranTurismo MC - Giallo yellow
Porsche 911 GT3 RS - black with orange accents - wife's car
F355 Berlinetta - Giallo Modena, 6-speed manual, carbon sport seats -recently traded in
Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

Last edited by MC355; 05-08-2013 at 01:36 PM.
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post #15 of 38 Old 05-08-2013, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MC355 View Post
well I apologize if I missed that wording, but i never assumed "aftermarket units" to be synonymous with "home-made." maybe I misunderstood home-made?

I used alot of aftermarket parts in my other cars in past, K&N, Greddy, Apexi etc and those are not Home made...

But to have issues after 2.5 months of ownership, still does not sit right with me, even if a dealer is being "honest"....

And please get your facts straight, I NEVER called out the dealer by name. Only you have the invoice, and no one else knows what dealer i'm talking about... I mentioned Norwood Performance because they are diagnosing my car and doing a damn good job at that..

and honest dealer, please, that's funny to me. they wouldn't drop the price by $3-4k (i knew i overpaid on price) because kept going on and on about how immaculate my F355 is and how I will not need any servicing or have any issues for at least 1 year, since it just had all its services done. Still sounding honest to you??? don't make such claims, and to have me have issues 2 months later...

and honestly, it was an honest mistake...maybe i jumped to conclusions after reading the email. but to say people like me make this business difficult? I take offense to that. you know absolutely NOTHING about me. thanks for your help.

I know everything I need to know. You come on the internet making accusations of dishonesty about an auto dealer who fully infomed you about a prior repair. You failed to go to the trouble to educate yourself about the ramifications of that repair. Was it an unwise repair? No. Was it an uncommon or illegal repair? No. Was it an improperly performed repair? We have no idea.

All we know is that in your opinion they are dishonest and you provided me with written evidence that they are not. Evidence you evidently failed to read when presented to you when you bought the car.
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post #16 of 38 Old 05-08-2013, 02:36 PM
 
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[QUOTE=MC355;24. I will not need any servicing or have any issues for at least 1 year,

The Dealership told you this? The word maintenance and 355 are interchangable.
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post #17 of 38 Old 05-08-2013, 02:38 PM Thread Starter
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no need to argue with you. it was never personal with anyone here, and you chose to personally attack me...seems like you have built up frustrations with other customers and decided to unload it all on here and on me...

sorry not everyone is as mechanically inclined as you are. We're not all mechanics or know all the nuts/bolts of a Ferrari as you. thought that's why we have forums like this around, but maybe people should be careful when asking for help here, with members like you.

gonna spend my time elsewhere for a while, don't need to be personally attacked. better use of my time.

BTW, i don't think others will over-react, if they just spent a good deal of their $$ on a F car, and to be told a malfunctioning part is "home-made".

Home-made does NOT equal aftermarket....

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post #18 of 38 Old 05-08-2013, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=308 milano;247415][QUOTE=MC355;24. I will not need any servicing or have any issues for at least 1 year,

The Dealership told you this? The word maintenance and 355 are interchangable.[/QUOTE]

yes dealer told me, and I stupidly believed them. but the dealer is honest, according to Brian, so he was telling me the truth.

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post #19 of 38 Old 05-08-2013, 04:07 PM
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[QUOTE=MC355;247418]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 308 milano View Post

yes dealer told me, and I stupidly believed them. but the dealer is honest, according to Brian, so he was telling me the truth.


You like to read a lot into my statements. You read into my statement that I have been asked to falsify records as a statement that it was legal or OK to do so. I said nothing of the kind. You say I have personally attacked you. I have done no such thing. I made a statement that people like you make this business difficult. Well, you called them dishonest and I pointed out they gave full disclosure. If that makes you a great customer we have very different standards. Now you suggest I gave them a blanket endorsement of integrity. Nothing of the kind was said by me.


You have a serious problem. You cannot take responsibility for your own actions.

Grow up, fix your car, and quit putting words into the mouths of others.
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post #20 of 38 Old 05-08-2013, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
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not sure why I bother....i am checking other posts, but felt I need to defend myself.

I never said you said it's legal to falsify documents. I was asking you a question...

my exact quote:

"So you're saying it's "legal" to falsify repair orders and invoices? You said you were approached by many people to do that..."

do you see the ??? behind the first sentence? it is a question, not a statement of fact. and I never said or implied you actually did it. (see how easy it is to misread things? common mistake huh?)

whatever. telling me to grow up. and you're the ones who use blanket statements like "people like you who make this business difficult." like you know anything about me or my life. if the business is so damn difficult, find a new career. no one is stopping you.


i'm done wasting my time with this conversation. you can go save an engine, or sell a car, or whatever the heck you do. i'll go do my thing.

oh and btw, your type of attitude is more suited for another forum (cough cough Fchat). If this is the type of members on this forum...

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