308 308 GT4/GTS fuel tank compatibility and pricing - Ferrari Life
 
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post #1 of 18 Old 11-20-2011, 07:38 AM Thread Starter
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308 GT4/GTS fuel tank compatibility and pricing

I'm putting a fuel cell in the GT4 for racing and I have spare gas tanks that I'd like to get rid of. My question is the tanks for a gt4 will work in a gts, gtb, etc? Secondly, for both tanks what would be a good price roughly to ask for them?

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post #2 of 18 Old 11-20-2011, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
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Maybe you guys can tell from the pics if these would fit in a gts, and other models. I assume they are all more or less the same.

Thanks

Jay
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post #3 of 18 Old 11-20-2011, 01:42 PM
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I would hold onto them in case you ever decide to return the car to road spec or sell it.
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post #4 of 18 Old 11-20-2011, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
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I would hold onto them in case you ever decide to return the car to road spec or sell it.
Good advice Boxer but I have another set of these as well.
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post #5 of 18 Old 03-27-2012, 11:58 AM
 
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Jay,
I saw your post about the tanks for sale. There is a discussion over on Fchat re: the affects of ethanol on aluminum tanks. It seems that if there is separation then the water can casue corrosion. That leaves a lot of us hung out to dry since ethanol is everywhere in fuels today. We're lookign into solutions but are interested in seeing real tanks and signs of corrosion. Are you able to look in your tanks for signs of corrosion?

Thanks,
Steve
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post #6 of 18 Old 03-27-2012, 12:28 PM Thread Starter
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Hey Steve, I sold those tanks a few months ago but when I checked there was no ethanol problems with them. My buddies Ducati monster with a plastic tank expanded and had countless fuel lines degrade from it but the aluminum seems to hold up pretty well from what Ive seen.
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post #7 of 18 Old 03-27-2012, 06:35 PM
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I was the one who bought them, there were some pin holes in the bottom of the drivers side tank... though I wasn't surprised, most of these tanks get this but most likely not from ethanol but from where they sit on the pads over time. It's thin aluminum. Tank tested them and welded up, no big deal.

Anyone want to buy the passenger side tank pictured above?

Also have my old drivers side tank which has a broken baffle rattling around inside. I need fix that somehow.
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post #8 of 18 Old 04-08-2012, 11:15 PM
 
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Jay - Seems like a lot of weight in the back end for a mid-engined car. I know that all the IMSA-prepped 308GTB's always had them in the front (like most mid-engined cars), but on those GTB's, the whole area was customized. Check this out as an example: 1977 Ferrari 308 GTB Serial Number 20969*-*Front chassis detail & fuel cell from right. The GT4 factory LeMans car seems to have used the stock locations - or maybe even the rear seat area - the cars have fuel tank fillers on both sides of the car. I also saw a photo of an other GT4 race car that had a fuel cell in the stock location - but looked like only on the one side (there were no photos of the other side of the engine bay, I don't know if there were two cells). I was thinking of doing the passenger side tank thinking that the weight would balance out with me in the driver's seat. My only worry is that once you fit a bladder inside the one stock tank, there wouldn't be much capacity - but maybe enough for a 30 minute sprint race.
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post #9 of 18 Old 04-09-2012, 06:42 AM
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I was thinking of doing the passenger side tank thinking that the weight would balance out with me in the driver's seat. My only worry is that once you fit a bladder inside the one stock tank, there wouldn't be much capacity - but maybe enough for a 30 minute sprint race.
It never even occurred to me that you could do that to a stock tank....doesn't it need to be certified in anyway for race use?
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post #10 of 18 Old 04-09-2012, 03:17 PM Thread Starter
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Pen,

I like the way the GTB did it up front and that cell is HUGE. I'm doing just a 10 gallon and I was pretty set on doing it at the tail and having the electric fuel pump mounted beside it. It seemed safer to me there if the whole trunk was covered in aluminum. I may look into ditching the spare tire well and seeing what I can put up there before I use the stock location again.
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post #11 of 18 Old 04-09-2012, 10:32 PM
 
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The bladder in that IMSA car is crazy - 20 gallons or so? (and that car has a totally non-stock chassis, so all that frame tubing in the front is custom.)

Each of the three main fuel cell companies will make a custom bladder, so you can send them a stock tank and they'll make a bladder to fit inside. The best way to do this for the GT4 could be to cut the top off the tank and then just fabricate a new aluminum piece to replace the top with - and that's what the filler would bolt onto. That might not be the best explanation, but I'll add an attachment of a GT4 cell using the stock location with a filler on top inside the engine bay. Definitely not the best place for a fuel filler - you could not fill up when the engine is hot, but a simple solution. (more complicated would be to add a remote filler neck).

My car will be a vintage race car and the clubs I run with generally require an SCCA-legal fuel cell which is usually a flexible bladder inside an aluminum or steel can. There are cheap cells (like Jaz) that are just plastic cells, but those aren't SCCA legal.

I had a custom bladder made by a Los Angeles-area company (where I live) called Aero Tec Services (in Santa Fe Springs) for a sports racer. The cell was designed to fit inside the steel monocoque chassis. I made a dummy tank out of cardboard - gave that to them and they copied it exactly (it was a complex shape - had different levels). The other two main fuel cell companies are Aero Tec Laboratories (ATL) and Fuel Safe - any of them will do custom bladders. I bought the filler top part from ATL. It was a a few years ago and cost about $1000 (the bladder that is, not the filler!).

Of course the downside to using one of the GT4 saddle tanks, is that - once you add a bladder inside, the capacity would be pretty low. You could always put bladders in both tanks, but that would cost... twice as much.

Or chop all the fiberglass out of the front spare tire area and pout something in there....

Decisions, decisions! (but I gotta say, I would worry about putting that much weight behind the rear wheels of a mid-engined car).
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post #12 of 18 Old 04-10-2012, 08:55 AM Thread Starter
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Hey thanks for the picture explanation. Based on what you're saying , maybe I should look into deleting the spare tire well, and putting the cell up there. I had no issues with air to water intercooler tanks the rear of other mid engine cars, but I saved a TON of weight with the radiator coming out so I may need some weight up there to balance it. Probably break even with a 10 gallon cell.

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post #13 of 18 Old 04-20-2012, 02:38 AM
 
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Wow that is great radiator! Is that an off-the shelf model or custom. I have Griffon on another project that I haven't started yet - maybe that will work.
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post #14 of 18 Old 04-20-2012, 02:42 AM
 
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Reply to MK E

If you have the job done by one of the three known cell companies - and the tech director at your club likes what he sees (because it's not just the bladder, it's also the filler neck and the fuel lines, then you'll get an "OK" - I had no problem when I did a custom tank.
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post #15 of 18 Old 04-20-2012, 07:33 AM Thread Starter
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Wow that is great radiator! Is that an off-the shelf model or custom. I have Griffon on another project that I haven't started yet - maybe that will work.

Griffin Thermal Products 1-25221-X - Griffin Aluminum Pro Series Radiators - Overview - SummitRacing.com

This is the one. I have never felt a heavier radiator in any car than the 308. I think this radiator and a full fuel cell may just equal stock weight
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post #16 of 18 Old 02-17-2014, 08:46 PM
 
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Hey Jay - I'm finally working on the 308 after some down time. What did you about your fuel cell? Still deciding myself on what to do. Not sure if the spare tire area has enough room for a cell.

Fave or Jay Do you still have that passenger side tank for sale? I'm still thinking of that option - just on one side, like the photo that shows the cell with the filler in the engine bay above. But I like the ides of experimenting with an "extra" tank rather than my original tank.
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post #17 of 18 Old 02-17-2014, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
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Hey Jay - I'm finally working on the 308 after some down time. What did you about your fuel cell? Still deciding myself on what to do. Not sure if the spare tire area has enough room for a cell.

Fave or Jay Do you still have that passenger side tank for sale? I'm still thinking of that option - just on one side, like the photo that shows the cell with the filler in the engine bay above. But I like the ides of experimenting with an "extra" tank rather than my original tank.
Yes I still have the tank. Pm sent
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post #18 of 18 Old 05-21-2015, 12:29 AM
 
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Hey guys!

Funny, I saw this page while doing a Google Search on the capacity of the GT4 gas tanks! Yes, the project that never dies (or the project that never gets enough momentum to keep going…) –*my GT4. It's a little farther along than it was at the time of that last post in July of 2014. But I started back up on it just on Monday. Got a bunch of parts from Superformance UK, but they sent a wrong part, so I'm stalled. Story of my life with this car. And I'm STILL not decided on what to do about the damn gas tank. I saw a GT4 race car at a vintage race last year and that car had a cell in the spare tire well. I meant to take photos but I got sidetracked.

Funny thing, I'm prepping a Lotus Europa for a race next month, and I noticed one small issue with how the fuel line was connected to the carbs. Two hours later I have the cell out of the car! The cell is in the front space (same basic layout as the GT4), but was wedged in-between a custom valance for the radiator - it was a much bigger chore than I expected. The whole system was junk. I have no clue how it got past tech inspection. And how I didn't noise to myself. I bought the car last year and ran it at one race, but I was totally focused on some mechanical problems, so I didn't even notice the fuel system issues. At least a replacement cell for is an off the shelf, standard size 8 gallon tank.

JayG did you change over your fuel cell to the front? Also, I don't think you ever posted a shot of the cell you put in the trunk. Could you post a shot of that - and also if you moved it to the front, a shot of that too?Thanks! Also, did you notice any handling issues with the lightweight radiator? And have you noticed any handling issues with the cell in the truck? More oversteer? Anything? Remind me –*what are you doing with your car? Road racing or autocross? Have you changed the suspension? Sway bars? Any words of wisdom?

My goal? Have my car ready for the FCA event in Monterey!

Fave – what's up? I did buy a right side tank but can't remember if I got yours or got one off eBay. If I got it from you, cheers – and if not, sorry!

Pen
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Last edited by penpp; 05-21-2015 at 12:43 AM.
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